Forums Erbium Lasers General Erbium Discussion Update on a previous case

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  • #2923 Reply

    Glenn van As
    Spectator

    Here is an update on a case I did a while back (9 months or so ago) where I cut a flap to expose a premolar. Really this was my first case of attempting to do some surgery with the erbium and since then we have done extractions, osseous recontouring and other flaps stuff………

    I now have put these pics into JPEGs as before they were on sendpix and are long gone in terms of storage (they were kept for 1 month on the site).

    I have updated the photos to show you what the case looks like now, and intend to do this more now to show you what some of the cases look like 9-12 months down the road…….and maybe in revisiting these cases we stimulate a little bit of discussion……….

    Here is my original statement and photos are attached.

    Hi Folks: I am glad I went into work this morning to do this case.

    I have never done an exposure before , this was my first.

    I feel like Mark Colonna…….well not as good looking or as smart but something close to him then.

    (A Mark Colonna wannabe)

    This young 14 year girl has the most crowding of any child in my entire dental career. I extracted all the first premolars and still had trouble getting some of the teeth in.

    6 months into treatment one tooth is not coming in and I take a new pan , pas and an occlusal and the upper right 2nd premolar has rotated and is not coming in as it is blocked out.

    I am feeling pretty sheepish and off she goes to the specialist. Well the parents are a little upset with me for not noticing the possibility before , and ask if I can do it to save them some money………enter the erbium.

    Continuum has some nice new tips which are shaped like a chisel for periodontal work ( from Japan) and in addition the make a nice scalpel. After anesthetizing……( I wasnt gonna try so dont ask me why), I very quickly used the chisel tip to cut my flap. I had sounded through the tissue to feel the tooth and when I saw no bone, I thought lets just cut a window in the palate.

    At this point , I notice the tooth was not really 100% formed, and a little decalcified. Not wanting to risk the erbium, I used the argon to quickly trough around the tooth ( I was worried about etching the tooth and bleeding).

    Then I thought to make a better bond of the bracket to the tooth I would very lightly etch with the erbium prior to acid etch the tooth.

    Some like Mark may have been content with the erbium etch to hold the bracket on……….bigger kahunas than me.

    I then tied the elastic ligature to the archwire as I didnt have a chain that could fit anywhere. I have the eyelet and I usually pigtail a ligature through to bring the tooth in.

    I am trying to derotate it first and then bring it down. I have done this a few times with canines before, but never exposed the tooth myself.

    I asked my O/S how he stops the bleeding……..electrosurge he says………..

    Oh yes the Argon laser tip is so small it assured me that the resin was set.

    I know that others who have done alot of surgery will criticize certain aspects of my procedure. I ordinarily would have done the entire procedure with the Argon , but wanted to try out the new chisel tips for flaps (worked very well at 30 Hz and 100 mj without water (3W))

    Ok now time for my flame retardant suit ………..

    FIRE AWAY.

    that way next time I will know what adjustments to make, but remember, at least I had the kahunas to try it and the photos to show it.

    Grin

    Glenn
    Resize of Exposure of premolar pg 1.jpg

    Resize of Exposure of premolar pg 2.jpg

    Resize of Exposure of premolar pg3.jpg

    Resize of Exposure of premolar pg 4.jpg

    #7253 Reply

    Benchwmer
    Spectator

    Glenn,
    WOW!!!
    How can you not believe in the strength of composite bonding after seeing the forces you used in moving and alligning this tooth and the bonded bracket?
    Jeff

    #7257 Reply

    Robert Gregg DDS
    Spectator

    Glenn,

    That’s sooooo reeeaaally nice a case and finish.  Do you do you own ortho banding and movement?  Tooth movement, I mean.;)

    Bob

    #7255 Reply

    Glenn van As
    Spectator

    Yes Bob….its my ortho case. I do a fair amount. Took some training for 10 years and even tried one year to get into ortho grad school (around 10 years ago) but without success. I think that someone had another plan for me (scopes and lasers) and so it wasnt ortho grad school for me (my marks were pretty average in dental school).

    Yes I was a wee bit worried Jeff about whether the bracket would stay on the decalcified tooth so I bonded the bracket on erbium etched enamel.

    Thanks for the kind words………maybe I should post it to dental town……..what do you think.

    Glenn

    #7254 Reply

    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Glenn,

    NO flame retardant needed for posts like this.  You did a tremendous service for your patient – that is the main concern – results.  You used the instruments that you have very well.  

    I would have used other instruments simply because I have other instruments.  But there is no way that anyone should argue that you should not have used a particular instrument – or did the work that you did with the instruments you used.

    Great work and visibility.

    (Edited by Delwin at 11:05 am on June 7, 2003)

    #7252 Reply

    ASI
    Spectator

    Very nice work, Glenn.

    You might consider to bias the bracket on the premolar more to the mesial to encourgare greater derotation distally.

    How long for treatment from exposure to now?

    Andrew

    #7259 Reply

    Andrew Satlin
    Spectator

    Glenn,

    Very impressive!!! Really nice case.

    I wanted to mention that in these exposure cases you need to be aware of keratinized gingiva and design your flap accordingly.

    When you are that far palatal it is not a problem, but when you are dealing with canines impacted toward the buccal it really becomes an issue. Instead of the “punch” technique you might consider reflecting a full thickness flap or sliding a pedicle.

    Just thought I would point that out to people that may not have alot of experience with these.

    See ya!

    Andy

    #7258 Reply

    Swpmn
    Spectator

    Glenn:

    Cool case.

    To make the incision, was the chisel tip placed in contact or out of contact with the palatal tissue?

    You mention the incision with the Er:YAG was made “without water” – is the significance because you find that ablation is improved without irrigation?

    Al

    #7256 Reply

    Glenn van As
    Spectator

    Hi Del ……thanks for the kind words. When I first got my erbium it was drilled in my head that there would be alot of bleeding on soft tissue with the erbium. I had the Argon for soft tissue so why would I want to use the erbium for soft tissue??

    Well when I was coerced by Tom Haney to start using the erbium for soft tissue I still remember my dental assistants look that she gave me for using the laser for a Class V….we both looked at eachother as it planed or shaved the tissue away without bleeding. Now the tissue was healthy and a small amount.

    It was that moment that made me TRY to use various wavelengths for a variety of procedures to see what would or wouldnt work.

    in this case I fully expected to find some bone (hence the flap window design first I wanted to try the chisel tip , which I really like…….

    The bleeding was there and I needed to control it with the Argon. If I had used the Nd Yag and no bone was present (there wasnt) it would have been a cleaner cut.

    I am glad that you have such an open mind and appreciate your kind words.

    Andrew….yes I agree I will rebracket and overdo the rotation the other way to prevent relapse. Good point.

    Andy you know what I love……your open mindedness to procedures I and others show here as we try to figure out how best to use the laser for perio procedures. You are to be admired for you positive attitude to much of what I show.

    Your point about keratinized tissue on the buccal is very very valid and appreciated. I was aware of the fact that the tooth was in the palate from the occlusal film.

    I am in the process of buying one set of surgical instruments to elevate the flaps……I may still use the chisel tip and the laser to cut the flap, but I intend to follow established periodontal guidelines in my flap design.

    Allen……the chisel tip is used in contact with the tissue without water at 30 Hz and 80-100 mj.

    Water isnt needed because the tissue has water in it.

    Air to cool the tissue and in addition if you want to spray sparingly on the tissue it will remove tissue tags building up on the tip…….

    Thanks for the kind words.

    Glenn

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