Forums Erbium Lasers General Erbium Discussion Crown lengthening, frenectomy, diastema closure

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  • #2916 Reply

    Samuel Moss
    Spectator

    I am trying to post some photos(not all got in) on using my erbium laser for crown lenghtening, troughing for impression, and frenectomy on a cosmetic diastema closure i recently did.  

    0ADAA700.jpg
    this is the before txt smile–note diastema and dark #9

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    this is beginning to place gingival crest where I want it

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    This is final gingival placement. note that the crests are moved mesially for symmetry of the final product

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    checking the bone levels and adjusting accordingly with the erbium for BW

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    finishing the frenectomy

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    same day temps

    Mossman

    (Edited by mossman at 10:27 pm on May 26, 2004)

    #7139 Reply

    Samuel Moss
    Spectator

    Hey folks

    Most of the photos came through (thanks, Ron).  For this case, I mocked up using resin on a model so that I knew exactly where I was placing the gingival contours.  I also had to remove bone in some areas (crown lenghtening) in order to preserve biologic width.  This, as well as the frenectomy, was done with the Er,cr:YSGG laser.   I have been doing closed crown lengthening procedures for about 7-8 years, but with the erbium, there is no swelling, the healing is much swifter, and post op pain is very little.  The last photo is the same day temps.

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    retracted view of final case and

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    final face view

    Note that I moved the gingival crest mesially  on the centrals and to a lesser degree on the laterals in order for my final product to have symmetry.

    (Edited by mossman at 4:15 pm on May 26, 2004)

    #7147 Reply

    Glenn van As
    Spectator

    Absolutely beautiful result and I really mean that Sam. Your photos are clear and really helpful.

    I know that Andy and also Danny will have questions about healing and Biologic width. The concern that has been expressed previously with closed flap CL on some of my cases is how you know what the architecture looks like under the bone.

    I for one am trying to push the envelope and I want to tell you that your temps and treatment were beautiful.

    Please take EXCELLENT postops of this case photos wise and radiographically so we can follow the healing.

    I for one applaud your case and again the documentation is excellent. I really love how people are sharing their cases and this is a wonderful place to learn.

    Please folks if you are to criticize these cases which take a tremendous time to put together, do so in a constructive manner so we can all learn and so others will feel brave enough to share with us their cases.

    In this way we can all learn.

    Bravo Sam, I for one will love to see the healing and your temps are beautiful.

    Glenn

    #7137 Reply

    Sam – This is crap! You could have closed that space with amalgam! (Just kidding, of course)

    This patient has got to be stoked! What a beautiful transition. I, too, look forward to the post ops. (Not bad for an LSU guy.)

    Did you consider using the Periolase to coagulate the frenectomy area?

    Keep up the good work.

    Kelly

    #7141 Reply

    Samuel Moss
    Spectator

    Glenn and Kelly,
    Thank you for the kind words. Glenn, if anyone wants to be overly critical, I am a big boy and can take it. I know that it’s not something that I could submit for AACD accreditation, with the higher gingival contour on 10 and the difference in size symmetry between 7 & 10, but I think we did OK considering from whence we started.

    Kelly, I did not have the Nd:YAG when I began this case, as far as the frenectomy went. I really like the rapid healing of the erbium and the lack, or much decreased, pain when using the erbium.

    Thanks again,
    Mossman

    #7146 Reply

    Benchwmer
    Spectator

    Sam,
    Wow! Nice tissue management and restorations.
    My question is always Nd:YAG or Erbium on soft tissue. Frenectomy quicker and faster healing w/ Erbium, if need hemoststis Nd:YAG.
    Your photo on removing crest of gingiva, shows laser directed at tooth. How do you protect tooth surface when removing this gingiva? Do you change tip angulation? How did you control bleeding?
    This is where I see the Nd:YAG as a more precise, no danger to tooth, no bleeding laser.
    Thanks for your case.
    Jeff

    #7142 Reply

    Samuel Moss
    Spectator

    Jeff,

    Thanks for the kind words. It was great meeting you in Cerritos a few weeks ago. I don’t really worry about my angulation of my tip toward the root surface. My setting in so low (.25W 0/0 air/H20) when I do, and I’m going to prep 0.5mm sub-g anyway, I really don’t see a problem. When I remove bone, I’m sure some energy hits the root, but I used to do it with a bur, and I had no problems. We scale and root plane the dog out of the roots to get them “healthy”. So that’s my take on it and I’m sure this is all heresy in the annals of perio, but you and i’ve seen what works, though sometimes we are baffled.

    Mossman

    #7136 Reply

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Sam,  
    A bunch of questions…

    (its hard to tell from the pictures), Did the frenum cause a lot of blanching?/ any recession? Was this just to recontour the thickness in the area between the incisors?

    When you say you did crown lengthening w/ a bur, were you talking gingivoplasty that happens going subgingival? or actual bone removal?

    In this case was bone just removed on the buccal? How did you blend it into the interproximal areas? (I find it hard to see around the head of the Waterlase to do so, any suggestions?)

    Have you considered smoothing the root surface (that will pit @ .25W) with a curette?

    Good to have another participant.  You’ll be a pro at posting images in no time smile.gif

    #7145 Reply

    ASI
    Spectator

    Hi Sam,

    Nice temps indeed and good handling of the soft tissues.

    What did you use to fabricate the temps?

    Thanks.

    Andrew

    #7143 Reply

    Samuel Moss
    Spectator

    Thanks Ron,

    Coming from one of my heroes, I appreciate your help more than you know. As to your questions:

    1. The frenum did not cause blanching. He had a tight lipped smile and did not show much in the way of teeth. At first, all he wanted was to bond the diastema, but I took the chance and mocked it up in stages to show him how much better it would look if we used the room provided by the 6 anteriors, instead of 2 “goober” centrals. I digress. I did the frenectomy to release his upper lip and to recontour thickness in the area between his incisors.
    2. I used to use gold colored “Smigel” diamond (Diatech 859-018-10 F) bur and using an IPC to “pull” the gingival tissue away from the tooth, would trim the bone to the desired level–always checking with the probe and “feeling” the area so as not to make a bony pocket.
    3. In cases of cosmetics–I almost always limit bone removal to the buccal. I want a nice scallop and ALWAYS want to maintain interproximal gingiva. If i need to extend interproximally, I just use my longest and widest tip (the longest and widest that I have in my office is G6) and “swivel” it in interproximally.
    4. I have not used anything to smooth the root surface. A currette sounds like a great idea. I use 6.0 power loupes with a bright Zeon illuminator and have not “seen” any pitting. Again, I used to do it blind with a diamond bur (& lots of irrigation) and have not had one problem–EVER. Either just very lucky or it does’t really matter.

    Mossman

    #7140 Reply

    Samuel Moss
    Spectator

    Andrew,

    Thanks for the compliment. Who knows–I might get the ‘nads to put up a case on dentaltown. Anyway, I still use a direct method for just about all temporaries and use EXACTA_TEMP. It polishes nicely, but the big plus is that you can add to it (say if you have a void).

    Mossman

    #7138 Reply

    kghabou
    Spectator

    I’m a first-timer on the laserdentistry forum. What were your settings for the frenectomy? Great case, by the way.
    kaveh

    #7148 Reply

    Lee Allen
    Spectator

    Nice case and pictures. Very clear presentation.

    You can answer Kaveh’s settings question first.

    I have just a comment: I use a waterlase too and (when I remember before starting an anterior labial case) I find the straight handpiece very helpful for seeing around a smaller end (I use 6.0 Loupes too).

    I would recommend that you try some other tips, like the C and T series. The G-6 is great for wanting to get a lot done with a bigger footprint tip, like bone removal and big areas of soft tissue removal. But the price is ragged soft tissue surface unless the setting is low and the cruising speed is snails paced. For initial incision I like the T-4 that is 6 mm long. The tissue is not as ragged as when I use the G series. As Gramme recently posted, for surface recontouring of gingiva, the C series produced a cooler center effect and is better at smoothing any bulbous tissue. I think we would get better gingival smoothness out of a 30 Hz setting if I had one.

    Nice results. smile.gif

    #7144 Reply

    Samuel Moss
    Spectator

    kaveh and Lee,

    Haven’t been in the forum much these past 2 months.

    Kaveh: frenectoemy settings: 1.5W, 15w/11a. Bleeding was not bad, but I paint areas with 0.5W, 0w/11a.

    Lee: Thanks for the tips. I don’t have the straight handpiece as of yet. Did an anterior extraction, bone graft, smile makeover case the other day that required crown lenghtening. Trying to get the G6 under the gingiva to contour underlying bone was awkward, at best. Straight handpiece would have been nice. I need to go to a Barr/Colona course, check out all the new tips, and see how they are teaching gingiva, bone, PDL removal for extractions. The C series tips look serious.

    Mossman

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