Forums › CO2 Lasers › CO2 Lasers › Deka CO2
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sampat13421SpectatorI am an owner of a Deka CO2 laser, and love it. I used to own a diode, before I sold it, and feel the CO2 is a better all around device.
I’d be curious to hear from other laser owners as to how they feel this laser compares to other CO2’s, and to diode lasers.
Sam Barr
SwpmnSpectatorQUOTEI am an owner of a Deka CO2 laser, and love it. I used to own a diode, before I sold it, and feel the CO2 is a better all around device.I’d be curious to hear from other laser owners as to how they feel this laser compares to other CO2’s, and to diode lasers.
Dr. Barr:
How do you utilize your Carbon Dioxide laser?
I can see the advantages of a carbon dioxide laser for the occasional case requiring rapid gross soft tissue reduction and hemostasis of oral soft tissues, e.g, removal of epulis fissuratum; frenectomy. It is difficult for me to envision usage of a CO2 laser for everyday fine tissue work like retraction of gingiva around fixed prosthetic margins.
I’ve only played with carbon dioxide lasers on tomatoes and hog gums but just seems to me that for the average general practitioner the erbiums work fine for gross soft tissue reduction. The continuous diodes and pulsed Nd:YAG’s seem better suited than the CO2 for fine soft tissue surgery.
Al
sampat13421SpectatorHi Al,
I owned a diode (Ceramoptec 15 watt, 980) for 5 years before I purchased the CO2. I sold the diode, when I found out that I could do everything with the CO2 that I did with the diode.
This includes troughing for crowns. The device has a “perio tip” that seems to give quite good control. Hemostasis seems better. than with the diode, perhaps because of the wavelength, perhaps because there seems to be less “contact” involved.
I found, that with the diode, I didn’t end up using it every day, as the limited benefits seemed to be outweighed by the hassle of setting it up, or, perhaps, I just wasn’t using it right. The CO2 is used every day.
I have zero experiance with a ND-YAG. What CO2’s have you played with? I wonder if, indeed, the Deka is really a different animal or not.
sampat13421SpectatorSorry, I didn’t put my name on that last post…I hate it when others do that.
Sam Barr
kellyjblodgettdmdSpectatorSam – good questions about the CO2. I don’t really know anything about them, although I know DEKA is marketing it heavily. I have to agree w/ Al that I think the CO2 is relatively limited in application, especially compared to the different Erbium products on the market. But again, for certain soft tissue procedures, I hear the CO2 is a great wavelength.
I hope we hear from someone who has experience w/ CO2.
Kelly
Kenneth LukSpectatorHi Sam,
I’m excited that you mention this company.Do you know much about this company? I’m interested in their products.
I’ve been using the Biolitec 980 for 18 months. I use it everyday and it does serve me well. Can this CO2 laser really give you the fine control that you can get with the 980? How do you use your CO2 on perio case? Is it the US-20D? It’s an articulated arm delivery system. Is it easy to manouver?
Deka also make Nd:YAG ( Smartfile) with a PD as short as 50us.
I’m interested in Deka’s Erbium ( articulated arm ) with PD at 80us. Do you have any experience with this machine?
Ken
sampat13421SpectatorHi Ken,
I had the same diode laser as you, for 5 years, before I purchased the CO2 (I also have the Deka Erbium).
In my hands, fine control of the CO2 matches the control I had with the diode. However, when you want it to be, the CO2 is quite rapid.
I have limited experiance with perio aspects, because where I live (New York State) hygienists aren’t allowed to touch a laser.
Manouverability is not an issue. If you talk to other laser amnufacturers, they will call the articulated arm “old technology”. However, I believe its the best technology for energy transmission.
For example, I believe (please someone correct me if I’m wrong) that the Opus CO2 does not have an aiming beam. Why not? Because the energy is scattered by the wave guide. The articulated arm does not scatter the energy about, so an aiming beam can be used.
I’m on vacation right now, hope to post some pictures when I get back.
Sam Barr
kellyjblodgettdmdSpectatorSam – would you be willing to share some clinical photos of how you’re using the CO2? I’d love to see some pics!
Kelly
arrowsmithSpectatorSam,
Dr. Justen visited my office a number of times and demonstrated the “ultraspeed” CO2. I have to admit, I was extremely impressed at how precise the cut was, and how clean it was. Of course Dr. Justen claimed that it is possible to use this laser every day as well, but I had a hard time finding out how that would work in my practice. In your practice, what procedures are you routinely using it for?
Dr. Justen also claimed that this was “the future” of periodontics and that a few universities in the country are getting on board with their CO2. Have any of the DEKA reps discussed the perio applications?
I brought this topic up a while ago in the soft tissue section . . . I found out a lot of very valuable information . . . especially from Bob Gregg. Maybe you might like to discuss this again Bob?aaroN
sampat13421SpectatorHi Aaron,
My perio experiance with the CO2 is limited, because in New York a hygienist is not allowed to use a laser, and frankly, I don’t need to add something else to do when the hygienist is doing rootplaning. I have used it occasionally, however.
I have not seen evidence that the CO2 is better than a diode for perio, although it may be out there. However, from what I have personally seen in my hands, in my limited experiance, it seems to be as good. Not very scientific, I’ll admit. I’ll have to take a look at what Bob Gregg posted.
The CO2 does get used every day, though. I do lots of Cerecs, and the CO2 is great for tissue management for the optical impression, better than a diode for me. I also use it for GV’s, apthous management, frenectomies, biopsies, stripping leukoplakias from tobacco chewers (after a negative brush Bx), uncovering implants, etc.
Basically, everything I used a diode for, but more.
Sam Barr
arrowsmithSpectatorSam,
That is good to hear. Are you doing any of those procedures without anesthetic? Do you use TAC or DRKliquid? Dr. Justen claimed that you can do a majority of procedures without anesthetic. In my office demonstration he did, I used it for troughing around a crown prep for the impression . . . the patient was already numb. Honestly, it was more difficult to use than I thought, however, the end result was very nice . . . great hemostasis as well. I had a tough time with the ฽K price tag though . . . and then not having diode experience to know how to use it everyday. But, I am learning more and more how to use my Erbium everyday, so it is all relative. Thanks for the input!
aaroN
sampat13421SpectatorHi Aaron,
I do some minor procedures without anesthetic.
However, I consider myself to still be early in the learning curve, so I probably use anesthetic more than needed. But not for perio or crown troughing…no anesthetic needed here at all.
I understand that Dentsply is coming out with a new anesthetic for topical application later this year.
What sort of difficulties in use did you have? Just curious…
Sam Barr
arrowsmithSpectatorSam,
Chris Justen talked about a de-epithelialization step first with a particular setting that wasn’t pre-programmed. I didn’t really know what that was supposed to accomplish. I am used to the Waterlase though, and the two are totally different creatures. Also, there were more variables to adjust with the CO2 than the Waterlase’s Watts, Air, and Water. I simply didn’t have enough time to get it all down.
If you have any photos of what the CO2 is doing for you, we all would love to see them!aaroN
sampat13421SpectatorHi aaroN,
I do the de-epi at level 6, 80 Hz, no local. You strip off the crestal epi cells, and extend 2-3mm beyond. The theory is that by removing epithelial cells further away from the sulcus,in conjunction wiht stripping out the pocket, you give others cells more time to repopulate, and hopefully reduce the pocket depth.
I’m still on vacation, but will try to post a couple of pics when I get back.
Sam Barr
sampat13421SpectatorSorry it has taken me so long to get back to the group and post some pictures. I’ve already screwed up trying to do this, I’ll se if this works
Pic 1 is pre op for a GV
[img]https://www.laserdentistryforum.com/attachments/upload/1-pre GV.JPG[/img]pic 2 shows the instrument position.
[img]https://www.laserdentistryforum.com/attachments/upload/2-Deka CO2 laser.JPG[/img]pic 3 is immediate post op
[img]https://www.laserdentistryforum.com/attachments/upload/3-post op GV.JPG[/img]The same result could have been easily obtained with a diode laser. However, I believe the point of this case is that a CO2 laser is often considered to be a much more of a “blunt instrument”. It is possible to easliy perform delicate procedures with this CO2 laser.
Sam Barr
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