Forums Diode Lasers General Diode Forum Diode troughing

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  • #3012 Reply

    stomatolog
    Spectator

    I have the Zap Softlase 2Watt Diode. I mostly use it for troughing before impressions. I find that manytimes I cause more bleeding than I stop and I get a lot of tissue tags. How do I get a clean thin trough around the tooth and expose the margin cleanly without tissue charring?

    #8028 Reply

    Anonymous
    Guest

    When you get bleeding it may be caused by the fiber tip actually causing trauma. Make sure to actually let the energy do the work. Make sure as you do your trough that your assistant directs a gentle flow of air at the tissue which will help cool the tissue and cut down on the possibility of char.That’s about my best suggestions w/o knowing how many watts your using? Also, CW or pulsed?

    #8029 Reply

    dkimmel
    Spectator

    Also remember to pull the fiber trough the tissue and not push. It is a glass fiber.
    Another point is after initiating the tip , activate it for a few seconds before toughing the tissue..

    #8036 Reply

    Nick Luizzi
    Spectator

    David:
    We all have issues with achieveing a totally no blood field for crown and bridge proceedures. Do you feel the diode laser gives you everything you could want in an instrument to stop bleeding completely pre-impression? If not, is there a wave lenght that does the job better or more predictably? Nick Luizzi

    #8030 Reply

    dkimmel
    Spectator

    Nick…. great question… NO! Well, Yes ! That is most of the time…
    A bloodly field for crown and bridge impressions is not something that anyone wants to deal with at the time of impressions. I try very hard not to have to deal with this before the prep date. That is healthy tissue prior to prep date. Healthy tissue does not bleed and it now is a non-issue.. I also like high -dry preps. Margins slightly above or at the gingiva. Sometimes this means a preLANAP or CL sx with temps.. Sometimes it just preCHX rinses and stepped up homecare by the patient.

    Then again I live in the real world of 85 and 90 Y/O patients with med lists 2 pages long….

    That said I like the diode for healthy tissue if I need to trough. It is great to lightly take that inter lining out of the sulcus without droping the height of the tissue. I have yet to get shrinkage on a think tissue biotype. Thin tissue is another matter. If it is thin with a large zarea of attached gingiva, if I get shrinkage it so far has always returned. If the zone of attachment is thin..I am stuck with shrinkage.
    With the diode on a thin tissue patient if there is more then minor bleeding. I’ll try using the diode unintiated and out of contact. Sometimes it works, other times it just starts to bleed as soon as the impression materials touches the clott… Because of the tissue being thin if this does not work I rule out using the diode. It will require too much energy to control the bleeding. Shrinkage or post op discomfort risk increase greatly.. So I’ll try chemical stuff , cord or whatever… depending on the esthics of the case. High esthic case we backup and punt and deal with the problem of why we have bleeding to begin with.. Thick tissue I will get more aggressive with the diode. The tissue can handle more energy without colateral damage. However, I do this with caution. If it is not working just don’t keep puting more energy into it… So if this is a case that for some reason I am stuck and need to take an impression and it just wants to bleed just looking at it— the diode is not the choice.. The same with the MD in Softtissue mode. just won’t do it with this type of case.
    Now the periolase is another matter. It seems that I can do more difficult cases with it.. It still has it limits and this maybe that I am still a newbie.

    So, simple cases the MD Soft tissue mode works, step it up and the diode will work, a bit more of a problem and the Periolase is the answer. I will say I can stop bleeder far easier and faster with the periolase ( With the help of DEL via an early morning phone call). The problem is with a bleeder the clot starts to be a problem with have access to the margin. Disrupt the clot and the problem starts over.

    Hoped that helped, the antihistamines have kicked in so
    I may not be too clear tonight smile.gif

    David

    #8037 Reply

    Nick Luizzi
    Spectator

    David:
    Wonderful post, thanks for taking the time to go over the spectrum of situations. Tissue management is as much an art as it is a science. I practice similarly as you.I just did an IV sed. case with an anastesiologist. and whenever I do, the problem of tissue management comes up. Cases where more than six units are preped and large old alloys, and old crowns are being replaced.
    That’s when I wish for a laser solution to the zones that bleed. You have validated what I thought regarding the diode laser. I am primarily er:yag. I am interested in what Bob and Dale have to post regarding this issue and the Nd:Yag. Best regards, Nick Luizzi

    #8034 Reply

    Kenneth Luk
    Spectator

    Hi,
    You can try troughing around the margins first;esp in subgingival areas. There will be less chance of trauma on the tissue by the bur. Much easier to control the soft tissue first than after tissue traumatised.
    Ken

    #8031 Reply

    kapalua
    Spectator

    Ken,
    I found out yesterday your advice on this issue is very true. I tried completing the prep first yesterday and then doing the crown lengthening with a diode laser and the tissue trauma I did with the bur, which at the time of the prep seemed minor, turned out to be too much to easily control the bleeding with the Odyssey. I ended up temporizing, putting the patient on chlorhexidine and will wait for healing.

    Tom

    #8035 Reply

    Kenneth Luk
    Spectator

    Hi Tom,
    It’s the same problem for deep class II cavities.
    Best open up the box and gain access to the interproximal gingiva, control the soft tissue , then define the floor of the box.
    Hope this helps.
    Ken

    #8033 Reply

    Glenn van As
    Spectator

    The diode lasers will actually remove tissue and they will also condition the tissue meaning that if you nick them afterwards with the bur , there is far less likelihood of bleeding to occur.

    So I remove tissue then refine the box, or the margin. It will be easier that way to see what you are doing.

    Glenn

    #8032 Reply

    kapalua
    Spectator

    Recently I did crown lengthening the old fashioned way- with a BP blade- on a young (20’s) woman. She didn’t heal normally due to her daily dilantin dose for control of seizures from years ago. At a post op visit I finally had my Odyssey 2 G and thought OK, I can deal with this and proceeded to ablate away the hypertpophic granulomatous tissue which had formed interproximately. The tissue was hemmorhagic and bulbous. It looked good when I finished but a week later she returned for another post op and the tissue had regrown and was more swollen and hemmorhagic than before I touched it. I have her on Peridex  and she’s to see her MD who had told her previously he thought he would take her off dilantin now as he felt it was no longer needed. I was disappointed the tissue didn’t look much better at one week and I’ll have to ablate the tissue once again once she’s off dilantin before I can get the impression. Any suggestions?

    #8038 Reply

    Robert Gregg DDS
    Spectator

    Yes, use a CO2 laser…….. 😉

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