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  • #2757 Reply

    Herb Yolin DDS
    Spectator

    I am new to this forum and have joined it based on the high level rating Ron Kaminer gave it. I need to be up front telling everyone I am involved with the distribution of a low level laser and do in office chairside consulting for what I am writing about today. That is not why I have joined this forum. I am a full time practicing dentist who introduced low level laser (LLL) energy to my practice 39 plus months ago and it is the most exciting thing I have ever done in dentistry including my purchase of a hot laser prior to that. My purpose is about education of a technology that has made a huge difference in my family’s life (low level laser energy) can be useful to help heal almost anything the body needs to have healed) and then made a huge difference in my practice because I have positively impacted the health and well being of many of my sick patients.

    I am trained as a prosthodontist (BU-1968) and have been practicing as a generalist since 1987 because of the state dental laws in Massachusetts. My practice is 100% adult. I have not sent a patient for pocket elimination since that time. We have had great success with non-surgical anti-microbial, microscopically monitored perio treatment prior to my purchase of an Nd:YAG early 2001. That only enhanced what I had been doing.

    That is enough of my background and now I would like to know if there is any interest at all about low level lasers (LLL) on any subject from the how and why, to the practical aspect, to the differences in LLL and what to look for when purchasing one. The subjects for this or any forum can be uses of low level lasers in dentistry and there are many, in addition to what I call a separate topic about negative proprioceptive feedback to the brain otherwise known as Dental Distress Syndrome.

    The following is a testimonial I received on a Thursday following an 18 year old first visit to me on Monday June 6, 2006. He had been diagnosed with CFIS, Chronic Fatigue Idiopathic Syndrome and came to me to have his amalgams removed which I did not do. I fabricated Miracle Bite Tabs™ and LLL energy to various points to allow me to adjust an oral device with the necessary muscles relaxed. This entire step took 45 minutes after a very brief 2 minute exam for Dental Distress Syndrome, and about 2 minutes for me to determine the vertical dimension of the device. The rest of the time the device was fabricated by my assistant who also held the LLL for about a total of 4 minutes at various trigger points. The family then rented an older version of the laser for ten days from the company. This unedited letter was e-mailed 4 days later last week.

    Dr. Yolin,
    I just wanted to give you an update on Marek. We can’t thank you enough for what you have done for him. To give you some background, Marek has not attended school due to his illness since the middle of ninth grade, and has been completing 3 courses a year through a tutor. He would have graduated high school this week if he had not gotten ill.
    He started to help at his Dad’s office since January 2005 as he felt he needed to earn some pocket money. He only has been able to go in 1 day a week for 3 hours.
    Since our visit Monday, Marek has said he hasn’t felt this well in so long he can’t remember. He said, “I had set the goal when Dad first hired me that I would come into work tues, wed, thurs, fri and take off sat thru mon. I haven’t been able to do that before, this week I can do it and it feels great.”
    Marek also had a headache when he woke up wed morning and decided to try the laser to see if it would help. After completing the whole scan he does with the 2 wands, the headache was gone and he was ready to go to work.
    We’re really confident that if things continue like this, he is going to be able to go to school this fall. I’ve been having a hard time sleeping just with the excitement that something is finally working and Marek will be able to recover and live a normal life. Every day he looks and feels better. God bless you doctor!

    I would like to share one recent verbal testimonial I just heard from a pedodontist who purchased our low level laser in March at the ALD meeting. He has had a 95% success rate using one wavelength at 660nm (laser diode and not an LED) in lieu of local anesthesia on deciduous teeth. His success rate on teenage permanent teeth has been about 25% where my success in my adult practice has been about 70%. I am guessing the teenage teeth have more open unclogged tubules, wider and larger pulp chambers that require more local.

    Hopefully there will be interest on this forum for the use of low level lasers in dentistry. I have found many dentists who are users of cutting lasers have no idea about cold lasers and their many uses in dentistry. We use our low level lasers ( I have two ) many times everyday. Nothing has grown my practice more or has been more exciting in my 41 years of practice. 12 years ago I downsized my practice from many square feet and shared office space to 780 square feet, 2 chairs only, low volume, reduced overhead, one hygienist, one assistant, and a receptionist. I wanted to work quietly and worry about the future later. These last 39 months have had me rent the suite next door last year so I would have room to take an associate in order to grow a sellable, alive, viable practice and reduce my office hours in order to pursue my next step in dentistry. The process has begun, the phone does not stop ringing with new patients, people are calling from all over New England and New York/New Jersey with an occasional patient from CA, CO, DC area, TX, Canada,etc. This February, the shortest month, the winter terrible, I had 52 new patient phone calls and I do not belong to any referral service. I never bothered with super internal marketing once I downsized because I had no need for it. The low level laser usage, especially its role in Dental Distress Syndrome made this all happen. I need to be able to refer to other dentists all over North America. Is there interest on this forum?

    #5762 Reply

    Swpmn
    Spectator

    Dr. Yolin:

    All views are welcome on this forum. There is interest in LLLT.

    Following is a personal opinion:

    With all due respect, from reading your post and looking at your website, I’m not sure if this is the right forum for what you are promoting.

    I may get in trouble for my comments and other members may disagree. You are asking for feedback. Mine is personal and not meant to reflect the opinions of other members.

    #5752 Reply

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hi Herb,
    Could you give us a quick review of ‘Dental Distress Syndrome’ and what role/ mechanism your LLLT plays in healing? I’ve also read some on LLLT and have seen some proposed mechanisms but not a lot of science, can you point me to some?

    Thanks and welcome to the forum.

    p.s. Al, you’re not in anymore trouble than usual 😉

    #5753 Reply

    If you guys want to check out a great LLLT website, check out: <a href="http://www.laser.nu/

    A” target=”_blank”>http://www.laser.nu/

    A great website. Also, for great text books, check out:
    <a href="http://www.prima-books.com/

    Kelly” target=”_blank”>http://www.prima-books.com/

    Kelly

    #5755 Reply

    Herb Yolin DDS
    Spectator

    Why would this not be a good place for this discussion? I do not believe this is a cutting laser dental forum. It may seem that way because LLL is so little known in dentistry. My experience over the last 39 months is that the most open minded, willing to expose themselves to new ideas, have been the dentists who have stepped outside the box and moved into lasers. Using LLL in your practice will not diminish one iota the need for hot lasers. You will use your cutting laser more because you will be busier. You will be a more complete healer because you will help patients solve problems beyond the drill, fill and bill concept.

    Dental Distress Syndrome (DDS) is also called negative proprioceptive feedback to the brain. It has to do with what the cerebral cortex interprets from how the mandible is in relationship to the skull. That interpretation believe it or not affects the entire body’s functions. This is not a tooth to tooth, but jaw to skull relationship.

    I have various power point lectures that vary from a one hour to all day that include some brief hands on, so it is impossible to give that here. That 18 year old, in my post, was greatly facilitated (45 minutes) to feeling better, that no one, not any health discipline who had seen him over the past 4 years had helped him. You cannot get how powerful that is. Could I have done that without the laser, probably, although I have never tried it because I learned it all together? That is not any different then treating periodontal conditions. Do you need a laser for that? No you don’t. He would not have felt better leaving the office the way he did. It might have taken weeks if I got lucky. Does LLL belong in the dental office? There is no question. Are there differences, you bet there are?

    Please understand I was not treating his chronic fatigue but his jaw to skull relationship and the need to relax the muscles of the head and neck in order to allow full blood flow to the pituitary, the master gland. Since I learned this, 100 percent of my patients with any immune suppressed symptoms, ADHD, brain fog, panic disorder etc. have some form of the DDS that needs an informed dentist. If I am right, and I am, just ask me, and then the knowledgeable dentist becomes the master regulator of the body. I am a one person commitment to educating humanity about this. I didn’t make any of this up, I am just a messenger.

    You asked about the healing, briefly, LLL energy repolarizes the mitochondria in the DNA. I am talking about very very subtle energy. I used 3mw of joules for about 4 minutes in total. One minute on each of 4 trigger points with 7 wavelengths and 29 frequencies on multiple laser diodes below infrared. That is priority information that I cannot reveal legally. I need to look up what I can reveal. The renewed cell energy inhibits the bradykinins and leukotryins (please excuse my spelling-too late to look up) so the ATP starts up and the shut down cell membrane opens and allows cell osmosis. One cannot get any nutrients into a depolarized cell.

    You asked about science. Turner and Hode have collated and translated about 3000 worldwide abstracts into book form. We have them whenever we present. Not all are great abstracts, but I have searched them and I have not been able to find one that ever harmed anyone. In 2004, I presented a clinical research paper at ALD using heart variability rate to measure the temporary balance of the autonomic nervous system after using the laser for 180 seconds (45 on each trigger point). The role of laser energy was staggering the more out of balance a person was prior to the energy. Also remember that these are class I lasers. No significant health risk. I have been babbeling away. It is late, good night.

    By the way if anyone wants information about an Energy Medicine Friday evening thru Sunday morning in August contact me at hyolin@comcast.net, introduce your self and I will forward it. I am doing this with a D.O., and an M.D.. This our third one and there is limited seating because we do a hands on- the dental hands on is around making the oral device on the spot. the D.O.’s get 15 cme’s, we may not get ours in time. It is extremely low priced in cost. I thought I said goodnight awhile ago.

    #5750 Reply

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Thanks for the reply, Herb. I guess that just brings more questions.

    I was never taught anything about DDS. Can you point me to any literature that mentions this?

    Also, my anatomy may be a bit rusty but how does the position on the mandibule in relation to the skull affect blood flow to the pituitary?

    Finally, I’ve read Tuner, and while there are many abstracts, many seem to be very anecdotal or deal with vague symtoms that could not be objectively measured. Any other resources?

    #5756 Reply

    Herb Yolin DDS
    Spectator

    Dr. Williams, I am promoting an old paradigm that just got tons easier with the advent of LLL energy. I used your word promoting; I would call it a passion for what I now know. A passion for what is making a huge difference for people. A true love of what I am doing and I have found a way to alter my life in dentistry after 41 years in private practice. Being a messenger for making a difference and incorporating my own discoveries along the way that make a true difference for people. I will now give you another testimonial although edited because I do not have a scanner. This one is one of many that hang in my waiting room. This board is my internal marketing, it has an excessive amount of thank you notes and testimonials. He had a blood test and had heavy metal toxicity and mercury poisoning and wanted all his metal removed. I refused to do it until I treated his DDS( dental distress syndrome).

    A 44-year-old guidance counselor dated 5/7/04 thanking me” for recommending the Miracle Bite Tabs and low-level laser technology. The improvement of my attention and concentration abilities has now been sustained for 9 months! Within twenty-four hours of you applying the laser technology and my use of the Miracle Bites I stopped taking Ritalin.” He goes on to say he now understands what normal concentration is, how this technology in his childhood would have allowed him to be a better student etc. I eventually changed the amalgams because of his blood work and medical recommendation, but all the symptoms were gone before I changed them. There are many very unhappy people who have spent huge sums having their metal removed and remained as sick or got worse. There are lawsuits against some of these dentists that did not have to happen if this technology was known. Now that you know it exists, you can never unlearn it. You can only choose to ignore it. How is your health, your families, do you have postural symptoms from doing dentistry or any immune system suppression, I.B.S., Fibromyalgia, you name it and I will show you DDS and the possibility for health wellness.

    Ron thanks for your interest. I would refer you to the work of Alered Fonder now deceased and his book ‘ The Dental Physician ‘ last published in 1985. I paid &#36130.00 for the book. After he died we found some for &#3695.00. We have a few left.

    As for the science in time I will have it more accessible in time. I have copies of a recent Meta analysis in wound healing. Do not get hung up on the science, it is there and more is coming. My mind is that this is not medicine but energy. An analogy to this is when I started doing my own anti-microbial periodontal Rx because periodontists wouldn’t, they told me they had to keep cutting because we never proved that a particular spirochete caused bone loss even though when we got rid of the anaerobes the patient stopped losing tissue and bone and all inflammation went away. The formal study to prove or disprove equal attachment for surgical and non-surgical was done in Tucson, AZ. 1993. Three years later there was no difference. I happen to have a cancellation and can give this some time, but I have much to do. I have been invited to speak on LLL at the American Academy of Anti-aging in August and need to do a lot for that.

    I woke up this morning thinking about Dr. Williams’s statement and all I could think about was that I wouldn’t take an Opus, Deka, or ANY hot laser for free if I had to give up my particular LLL. I can still accomplish a lot without the hot laser, I would not be accomplishing as much as I am now without my LLL.

    #5758 Reply

    Robert Gregg DDS
    Spectator

    Hi Herb,

    I wouldn’t characterize this site as a “hot” or “cold” laser site. It is a “laser dentistry forum”.

    I think Allen’s point is that we are evolving in dentistry and here on this forum from anecdotal reports of seemingly laser “voodoo” dominating our clinical inspirations and asking that there be more well-controlled science to support our activities.

    If you look through this forum, you will see a lot of cases of biostimulation and biomodulation. Some are through LLLT and others through HLLT.

    I get weary of those LLLT proponents that say “hot” lasers cannot effectvely perform biomodulation–that a LLLT device is required to the exclusion of surgical lasers used in a defocused mode.

    Nonesense………Those are opinions not based in fact, my experience, or science.

    I have been involved with lasers of all sorts for nearly 15 years. I’ve used both LLLT (cold) and HLLT (high level laser therapy) devices to treat a number of clinical maladies since them. Many afflictions you have heard about as treated by other operators, some you may have not heard about. Many I will never report publically or I would attract ridicule and scrutiny.

    Why? Because there is no well controlled science to support what we do in LLLT or HLLT.

    Nearly all of what we have done clinically with biostim/biomod is anecdotal, not data.

    And, to turn a phrase from US FDA, “the plural of anecdote is not data.”

    So until the advocates of LLLT and HLLT figure out a way to conduct well designed, controlled clinical studies–like Dr. Chad Smith did for MicroLite and FDA clearance for carple tunnel syndrome LLLT treatment, then I chose to be a little more discrete is my conversations and forum postings of “curing” either well known diseases and conditions, or those afflictions not well illucidated in the literature.

    Neither Turner and Hode or Tina Karu have presented in their books or references well controlled clinical science that meets the requirements we need.

    I know it’s frustrating to be told that–I’ve dealt with that frustration for all this time. But what can we do?

    Find a suitible control for the biomodulation effect.

    What could that be?

    Systemic or site specific anabolic steroids–they seem to block the effects of biostim and biomodulation………

    Best regards,

    Bob

    #5760 Reply

    Robert Gregg DDS
    Spectator

    ……….unfortuntely testimonials are the worst anecdotes we have…….

    #5757 Reply

    Herb Yolin DDS
    Spectator

    Dear Gregg,

    Thank you for your comments. Energy is energy no matter where it comes from. The quality, the ability to penetrate all varies greatly. I never said cure, I talked about a jaw to skull relationship that proprioceptively messages the cerebral cortex and the cerebral cortex interprets that message. The interpretation of the message by the cerebral cortex is what instructs the various body functions to react the way they do. A very complex system that cannot be explained briefly; see ‘The Dental Physician ‘ by Fonder and his extensive bibliography.

    You may call it “voodoo dominating our clinical aspirations “ and needing better controlled science etc. I do not call it voodoo, but I agree more are needed and are being done. Would you respect a Meta study the studies the literature and only analyses studies that are properly done? On the other hand what if a child of yours through our beloved medical science and diagnostic abilities was diagnosed with degenerative arthritis at age 30 and a deranged TMJ joint needing surgical intervention because of pain so great with every bite and debilitating migraines. Questioning how people could want to live if they had to endure such pain. This was my daughter at 30 years of age. My traditional TMJ treatment did not scratch the surface and while at ALD I found this modality of LLL added to DDSyndrome treatment as advocated by Fonder over 39 months ago. She has been migraine free, TMJ pain free, and no sign of degenerative arthritis since I brought the laser home. She does bone marrow transplants as a physician assistant a very stressful job. Should I not of used this, or told anyone, because the science does not meet your standards. Way back at the turn of the 20th century or right before I think it was Lister (not sure) who had his medical license taken away because he told everyone that simply washing hands before delivering babies would cut down on the mortality rate of new borns. A few years later the mortality rate was cut way down when the medical world began washing hands.

    I do not believe I ever said cure. I never cure anything with LLL. I never give therapy with LLL, I provide energy. I feel posting procedures that make a difference can help the world. Learning about DDS and applying it when it can make a difference is mandatory in my mind. Although I choose to not breath vapors from mercury and eliminated that from my office for that reason 12 years ago, I am witness to the many people not helped by the removal but are helped by the treatment of DDS. LVI does it their way, very expensive to learn and very costly for the patient. I transcend that by light years when I add energy to my use and understanding of vertical dimension and the role it plays in my treatments. I think I will never be quiet for I am helping so many so often and this message needs to be talked about. I did not cure CFIS; I do not know if the medical diagnosis is correct. I altered vertical by a certain oral device that was facilitated by laser energy because the energy allowed the muscle chemistry to start working so the fibers relaxed. This was necessary in order to balance the device correctly. Those of you that think this is voodoo and will not look at the clinical possibilities so be it. I feel sorry for the people who are not helped. There is literature and in time I will gather it. I will re-enter this thread in a few days. My time is limited right now. Is it voodoo if you have a frozen shoulder from the dental posture and nothing helps it for months and months? You cannot play golf or tennis because of it and in 6 minutes it releases with LLL. Guess what, not all LLL will release it. They are different. You mentioned the Microlite, a good infrared laser diode laser if you want to deal with the grizzle of the body. Joints, cartilage, tendons, ligaments, etc. great for carpel tunnel. I would not use it on my tooth for anesthesia, on a herpetic ulcer, or other soft tissue problems. It is too stimulating. Usually the infrared LLL are at 500mw. So I am effectively saying do not lump all LLL as one. Some are LED’s and simply cannot cut it at all. Programmable LLL are the way to go.

    Anyway thanks for the reply and obviously we see the world a little differently and that is how we grow. Talk to you in a few days.

    Sincerely,
    Herb Yolin,

    #5759 Reply

    Robert Gregg DDS
    Spectator

    Dear Herb,

    Thanks for your reply.

    I hope that I might save you some time, effort, energy and angst now that you have discovered the wonders of biomodulation.  I have seen others similarly enthused before in the last 15 years–and a few are very sad people today because the World did not follow suit with their observations.

    I’ll respond in line fashion:

    Dear Gregg,

    Thank you for your comments.  Energy is energy no matter where it comes from.  The quality, the ability to penetrate all varies greatly.  

    I agree with both your points.

    I never said cure,

    Neither did I.  I said that I chose not to use the word “cure”……..

    I talked about a jaw to skull relationship that proprioceptively messages the cerebral cortex and the cerebral cortex interprets that message.  The interpretation of the message by the cerebral cortex is what instructs the various body functions to react the way they do.  A very complex system that cannot be explained briefly; see ‘The Dental Physician ‘ by Fonder and his extensive bibliography.

    I don’t have a clue as to what what you are talking about.  The more complex the system or explanation becomes, the more skeptical I become…..

    You may call it “voodoo dominating our clinical aspirations “ and needing better controlled science etc.

    Herb.  Please.  Read what I actually wrote, not what you think I said.  And please reply in the context of my statement.

    I wrote, “I think Allen’s point is that we are evolving in dentistry and here on this forum from anecdotal reports of seemingly laser “voodoo” dominating our clinical inspirations and asking that there be more well-controlled science to support our activities.”

    I said “seemingly laser voodoo” to reflect how those of us talking about LLLT/HLLT appear to other folks not similarly aware.

    I do not call it voodoo, but I agree more are needed and are being done.

    Good, but the studies must be well designed and with a control group.

    Would you respect a Meta study the studies the literature and only analyses studies that are properly done?

    It’s not for me alone to say or suggest.  It is the opinion of the people that I wish would appreciate LLLT/HLLT that are telling me we lack good data.

    On the other hand what if a child of yours through our beloved medical science and diagnostic abilities was diagnosed with degenerative arthritis at age 30 and a deranged TMJ joint needing surgical intervention because of pain so great with every bite and debilitating migraines.  Questioning how people could want to live if they had to endure such pain. This was my daughter at 30 years of age.  My traditional TMJ treatment did not scratch the surface and while at ALD I found this modality of LLL added to DDSyndrome treatment as advocated by Fonder over 39 months ago.  She has been migraine free, TMJ pain free, and no sign of degenerative arthritis since I brought the laser home.  She does bone marrow transplants as a physician assistant a very stressful job.  Should I not of used this, or told anyone, because the science does not meet your standards.

    More anecdotes.  Anecdotes are not data.  They are not even case studies until they are written up and published somewhere.  They are not “my” standards anyway!

    My partner and I have been treating these conditions with laser biostimulation/modulations for nearly 15 years for me and 17 years for him.  

    Now where in anything that I have posted did I suggest you ignore your best clinical judgement?  

    Way back at the turn of the 20th century or right before I think it was Lister (not sure) who had his medical license taken away because he told everyone that simply washing hands before delivering babies would cut down on the mortality rate of new borns.  A few years later the mortality rate was cut way down when the medical world began washing hands.

    Yes, I know.  It was Ignaz Philipp Semmelweis.  1860’s……I mention this story from time to time.  He is an example of what I caution enthusiastic believers of the unproven methodology to be careful of.  He was eventually proven correct, but in the process he accused the skeptics of being murders.  So they shuffled him off to an insane asylum where he died weeks later:

    “He became alternately apathetic and pathologically enraged about his mission as a saviour of mothers. In July 1865 Semmelweis suffered what appeared to be a form of mental illness; and after a journey to Vienna imposed by friends and relatives, he was committed to an asylum, the Niederösterreichische Landesirrenanstalt in Wien Döbling. He died there only two weeks later.”

    http://www.whonamedit.com/doctor.cfm/354.html

    I do not believe I ever said cure.  I never cure anything with LLL.

    You will……….;)

    I never give therapy with LLL, I provide energy.

    I don’t get that one….. :confused:

    I feel posting procedures that make a difference can help the world.

    Great.  Just don’t go crazy when you learn the World doesn’t want or appreciate your help–or mine for that matter.  

    Learning about DDS and applying it when it can make a difference is mandatory in my mind.

    Well, right now that is an opinion.  Tell us more in detail.  Science would be helpful.  

    Kind of like NICO or “cavitation” lesions.  I didn’t believe in them when the proponents told me all about them.  Now I see them in my patients and want to know why our profession has ignored this phenomenon for so long.  :confused:

    Although I choose to not breath vapors from mercury and eliminated that from my office for that reason 12 years ago, I am witness to the many people not helped by the removal but are helped by the treatment of DDS.  LVI does it their way, very expensive to learn and very costly for the patient.  I transcend that by light years when I add energy to my use and understanding of vertical dimension and the role it plays in my treatments.

    Sounds very “transcendental”.

    I think I will never be quiet for I am helping so many so often and this message needs to be talked about.

    No.  This message needs science.

    I did not cure CFIS; I do not know if the medical diagnosis is correct.  I altered vertical by a certain oral device that was facilitated by laser energy because the energy allowed the muscle chemistry to start working so the fibers relaxed.  This was necessary in order to balance the device correctly.  

    Yep.  Do that all the time–have for years.  

    Those of you that think this is voodoo and will not look at the clinical possibilities so be it.

    Again, Herb, please read the words posted, not what you think I said.  I never said it was voodoo.  To others that don’t know anything about it sounds like voodoo.  Don’t you think?

    I feel sorry for the people who are not helped.

    Me too.  So my partner and I narrowed down our efforts on one disease process (periodontal disease), and researched its treatment with laser and invested in the science to appeal to others who require the scientific method.  We are now–12 short years later–where FDA has recognized our protocol.

    It ain’t easy.  It’s just the right way to promote a healing methodology.

    There is literature and in time I will gather it.  I will re-enter this thread in a few days.  My time is limited right now.

    See you soon.

    Is it voodoo if you have a frozen shoulder from the dental posture and nothing helps it for months and months?  You cannot play golf or tennis because of it and in 6 minutes it releases with LLL.

    Oh, please Herb, let’s not talk about tennis following injuries and laser biomodulation–I could write a book on it.  But I never will.

    Guess what, not all LLL will release it.  They are different.

    I know……..

    You mentioned the Microlite, a good infrared laser diode laser if you want to deal with the grizzle of the body.  Joints, cartilage, tendons, ligaments, etc.  great for carpel tunnel.  I would not use it on my tooth for anesthesia, on a herpetic ulcer, or other soft tissue problems. It is too stimulating.  Usually the infrared LLL are at 500mw.  So I am effectively saying do not lump all LLL as one.  Some are LED’s and simply cannot cut it at all.  Programmable LLL are the way to go.

    I understand that is the current thinking among LLLT advocates.

    Anyway thanks for the reply and obviously we see the world a little differently and that is how we grow.

    Differently?  Perhaps through the glass distantly…….

    Talk to you in a few days.

    Sincerely,
    Herb Yolin,

    Best regards,

    Bob

    (Edited by Robert Gregg DDS at 9:14 pm on June 13, 2005)

    #5754 Reply

    whitertth
    Spectator

    With extreme respect to my friends and colleagues on this board, I am open minded to all form of LLT even in fact minimal science exists. Many of you know about my pemphigoid patient that I treated with my ErCrysgg laser and for at least 18 months so far I have cured her of her pemphigoid..Now there really was not any direct science behind it,( onr slightly analagous medical study in 1999) but no direct studies, yet I tried it with using some logic and it worked. So I am not so adamantly opposed to logical treatment with any kind of laser as long as there is potential benefit with little chance of harm and obviuosly patient needs to be informed. I can understand the position of the scientists in our group, but clinical results in the best interest of patients is exrtremely important to me. I for one always have and continue to have interest in LLLT regardless of wavelength and would be interested to hear more interesting stuff…
    Just my personal opinion…still love all of you….

    #5751 Reply

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Ron, I think the difference in your pemphigoid case was that you didn’t combine it with another modlity of tx- it was clear the laser was effective. In some of the other testimonials presented here earlier, its not quite so clear.

    I’m amazed at some of the biostim (whether LLLT or HLLT) results I’ve seen and want to learn more but I need some assurance that the laser is being used to achieve the effect and its not just placebo effect.

    #5761 Reply

    Robert Gregg DDS
    Spectator

    Ron (K),

    Nothing for me to disagree with what you wrote–or even offer an “old salt’s” alternate perspective……

    Bob

    #5763 Reply

    Swpmn
    Spectator
    QUOTE
    I need some assurance that the laser is being used to achieve the effect and its not just placebo effect.

    Above selected quote from Schalter is my motto.

    Some people think anyone using a laser in dentistry is a quack. For this reason we need to be very careful in what we report. I once had a dentist literally get in my face and challenge me with questions even though my use of dental lasers is very conservative. In my opinion this is a scientifically-based forum and should remain that way.

    How about creating a category on the forum for “LLLT/HLLT” or “Alternative” or “Investigational” or “Biostimulation” uses of lasers in dentistry?

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Reply To: Low Level Lasers in Dentistry
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