Forums › Erbium Lasers › General Erbium Discussion › Very very cool incision and drain
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Glenn van AsSpectatorHere is a case I did today for a young kid with an abscessed
tooth……….darn it all I forgot the radiographs but the adult premolars
are right there. Mom is holistic and wanted no antibiotics…….its xmas
and I only had time for the incision……….all done without anesthetic.Its cool under the scope to see the different appearance of the abscess
which went from pink to white prior to popping because I had the laser in
defocussed mode and then incised it.The Kid felt absolutely ZERO……….I love the pics
Here is the link , note how the abscess went to white.
What I did is put the tip in defocussed mode for about 30 secs about 6-8 mm away and the abscess went from pink with all sorts of vascular nature to white….cool huh.
Then I went close and popped it and look at the three shots I got of it……..NO ANESTHETIC.
Then after it was drained it looked like a popped balloon.
Kid is coming back in the new year to exo the loose baby teeth. Mom didnt want antibiotics……..
Have a look it was really cool..
Glenn
http://www.sendpix.com/albums/021219/194006000000836f2079b3683b2e0f/
Janet CenturySpectatorDang, that was really cool!
Glenn van AsSpectatorHi Janet…….thanks for the compliments. It wasnt rocket science but it was cool and the pics worked out great I thought.
I just post these things for people to see. Its great to see Ron and Mark posting GREAT stuff like they are posting as well. Pictures educate all of us.
ALl the best for the holiday season.
Glenn
2thlaserSpectatorGlenn,
Cool case. I wish the link could be “clicked” on here, it would’ve been easier to view, for me! What were your settings? Wattage, air/water? I know we have different units, BUT they really are similar. When I get my scope, maybe we can do some studies that show the similarities and differences. I have seen (not to open a pandora’s box here, because I like to keep this stuff on DT), the studies of Hydrokinetics, and the SEM’s and am trying to get you the “proof” that you have been dying for that it exists. I will continue to try, as I would love to put this thing to bed. We have lasers, they work in our hands, you for Continuum, me for Biolase, and I appreciate your need for science. I too would like a bit more as I am getting more focused on different uses and such. That case you did here was way cool, and makes me salivate at the prospect of a scope in my office. I know my pictures are of good quality, and it’s “scopelike” in their nature, but to SEE IT ACTUALLY LIVE and in PERSON would be cool. I envy you, (and envy is not a good quality!!). Thanks for sharing, and let’s just promise ourselves to be supportive with our “research” and case sharing. We really have alot to help dentistry move forward in this realm of lasers. I also want to invite Bob to share more about his Nd:YAG. We all should know what eachothers capabilities are, and continue to share. I don’t have all the answers to the science yet, but, that being said, I am going to try. I hope to have more for you after Dana Point. Keep up the great work, and posts, great teaching!
Mark
Glenn van AsSpectatorYou know Mark……your professional nature in how you approach a discussion is self evident. You always state when something is opinion and when something is fact. You are always gracious in your praise of others and humble in your own abilities and yet you consistently throw out photos and cases that push the envelope and show a thinking that is out of the box.
I go on record as saying that crown preps were not possible as too rough a cut and you proved me wrong with photos and evidence to back up your statements and I was wrong, and admit it without one iota of regret.
You have acted in such a professional manner that I dont have one concern regarding your usage of the laser as you are showing cases that are marvelous and its you humility in posting them that adds so much to the equation.
THere are others on DT who throw out things that are ridiculous and speak volumes for their relationship with a laser company.
Bob always tells us his bias, you do, Ron does and you never question that other lasers may be as good as the one you have.
I dont believe hydrokinetics despite what Ray Tang has showed on DT, and I have had long discussions with many people over this in Continuum. Even if hydrokinetics is responsible for part of the laser mechanism of action (2 studies say it isnt) then I am very suspicious that there would be such a HUGE impact on one wavelength and not another that is so close to it.
None of the photos you have showed lend me to believe that there is much different between the lasers.
Its what system , price, company and delivery system you prefer.
If you read my recent posts they are very complimentary of Biolase in many many areas. I just dont want to see any more of this my laser is better than yours stuff, unless there is science to back it up instead of hearsay.
You back your statements up with proof………I have never seen some of the DT guys post one case at all.
I wont mention names but some say they dont know how to use a camera, others are big talkers but never show anything……….
As for the scope case that I showed, the air water % are tough to know.
I had the air on about half way but NO water at all.
I started in defocussed mode and you can see how it changed the color of the abscess from pink to white. My assistant and I were both astonished. I left it there in non contact for 30 secs and the tissue got white white white. I dont know if it is getting hot and bringing the infection closer to the surface or actually changing the tissue on the surface. It was pretty vascular before I used the laser on the tissue and it turned white and no Blood vessels.You know there are guys that I know who have the fuji s1 on their scope with a different attachment. This is not as easy to use as a point and shoot and the pics wont be much different because you only have the body not the lens on the scope. Its heavy too and that is harder to move the scope around. I can find out for you if you want what attachment adapter you need to attach the camera to the scope.
The scope pics that I have are actual pics out of the scope and NOT blown up or cropped. Thats the view I have when I look through the scope. It is easier to see on the maxilla than the mandible.
I would encouvage you to come next year to the Academy of Microscope Enhanced Dentistry in Scottsdale , Arizona in November (6-8) I think.
I can send you information on it but there will be some well known speakers and even a hands on course there.
Bob has a wealth of information and I have learned that he really feels the NdYag is better at perio than the diode and with his wealth of experience and his knowledge behind the science and the fact that he feels that a pulsed laser is better , I cant doubt him for his beliefs. He knows alot about the area.
I hope that Dana Point is fun and I am sure that the entertainment will be great and the lectures fun as well.
All the best and let me know when you want to come and visit……..Here are a couple of pics of one of our ops……..
Glenn[img]https://www.laserdentistryforum.com/attachments/upload/Resize of DSC_0004.JPG[/img]
[img]https://www.laserdentistryforum.com/attachments/upload/Resize of DSC_0012.JPG[/img]
[img]https://www.laserdentistryforum.com/attachments/upload/Resize of DSC_0013.JPG[/img]
2thlaserSpectatorGlenn,
You talk about being professional, look in the mirror. Thanks for the nice compliments. The S-2 body is totally revamped and really light. They used a Nikon body on it. I need to be able to mount the camera, and get pics through the scope like you are, it’s the only way to accurately record what we do, and see at the same time. I will be at the scope conference, I will plan on it. I want to be a leader in this industry, as I know it will take time, study, and a contientous (sp) effort to get there. I yearn to learn, and also to teach. I think it’ll be cool that we use two different lasers, with very similar approaches. It’ll be a good comparison of the two lasers I hope. That being said, thanks for sharing as always, have a great holiday, as I leave tomorrow to visit family in Ohio. I will check in when I can.
Sincerely,
Mark
Glenn van AsSpectatorHere is the link to next years meeting………
http://www.lifetimedentistry.org/index.html
i know that David Clark the head of the AMED (or right now it is called the CMED) uses the S1 and the adapter will be the same and he gets good pics. Sometimes you might want to think about a lighter camera on the scope……..
There are alot of material from the endo people on cameras and here is another site to peruse to get some idea of what is available.
I have the D1 but the Nikon point and shoots are nice to leave on the scope and then you keep the Fuji s2 for other shots.
Just an idea but here is a link and also a pic or two of my setup.
This is globals alternative and Gary Carr has one that can be attached as well and I have included a pic of his system.
Glenn
Glenn
glenn[img]https://www.laserdentistryforum.com/attachments/upload/Resize of DSC_0018.JPG[/img]
Robert Gregg DDSSpectatorAwe Shucks you guys!–Mark, Glenn (you too Ron)–Quit it. I’m gettin’ all misty eyeed!
Glenn must be feeling better. He’s posting on Dental Town and seems to have his old piss and vinegar going again! Don’t get to worked up too soon, Glenn, we don’t want you to suffer a relapse!
You guys are tops in my book. Skill, talent, grace, professionalism, HUMILITY, a real gift for communicating your ideas and thoughts and techniques. Wonderful.
And you are all so nice to me as The Old Man!
Hey Mark, I really don’t think it matters whether HK is “real” or not, or the predominant effect, or not. At this forum, we can talk about clinical techniques and device parameters and I don’t see that HK matters that much in your discussions about procedures. Is that right?
I happen to know an optics engineer, who consults with us at Millennium, that has a lot of experience with Er:YAG and Er:YSGG. In fact he used to work for one of the erbium dental laser manufacturers designing……well, anyway. We can discuss his feelings on the matter if you all like sometime…….
Anyway, thanks Mark for being open minded and inviting more presentation of the pulsed Nd:YAG. Don’t get me wrong. I have an argon blue/green, and a diode, and a holmium (a lot like an erbium only a quartz high OH fiber like the diode) and I used an erbium for about a year in R&D back in 1996, both in the lab and in the mouth. We’re waiting for additional erbium technology to “arrive” before we bring them into the operatory for every day use. Besides, we spent the last 8 years focused on getting bone to regrow in all perio patients, in all pockets, at all times and conditions. So erbium-type hard tissue cutting has had to wait.
That is NOT to say that erbium’s are premature. I have seen some great improvements in the WaterLase, and Con-Bio has solved a lot of the issues I was concerned about. And the improvements keep on coming–as I fully expected.
My hat is off to all you guys Mark, Ron S, Glenn, Ron K., Alan, Pat for getting involved in free-running pulsed erbium technology CLAP, CLAP, CLAP
I have said for a long time that it’s 1990 all over again for laser dentistry as laser dentistry pertains to erbium lasers. The discovery of techniques and technology are rapid.
I guess what I am trying to say it that I was a “bleeding edge” laser dentist 12 years ago using a device and technology that was still developing in the FR Nd:YAG.
Now many here on Ron’s forum are doing the same pioneering work and “bleeding edge” presentations (to the profession at large–Mark & Glenn) with the erbium devices and procedures–and the technology and device improvements continue…..while we all argue (in good nature here) about 2.8 versus 2.9.
Anyway, I’ll make a plug for the PerioLase MVP-7 in that it represents the latest advancements and enhancements in what free-running pulsed Nd:YAG technology AND the clinical practice requirements demanded of it, as a result of 10 years of clinical use and refinements in available technology.
One day, we’ll see erbium’s have the benefit of the optimal clinical and technological enhancements as a result of real-world experiences that you all are blazing the trails for right now. You guys (erbium owners) deserve ALL the credit for that.
Hummmm. I wonder who will be manufacturing the erbium lasers like that of tomorrow……Glenn, Mark, Ron?
Also one day here I’d like to have a discussion about why free-running Temporal Emission Mode (TEM) is so important for laser tissue effects regardless of the wavelength either 2.9 or 2.9 erbiums or even 1.0 neodymiums. But I’ll let you think about the TEM as you see strange and wonderous effects in human tissues. I mean, can the pulsing itself have an effect separate from the wavelength?…..Just don’t forget to remind the old man to address the tease later on….
Merry Christmas to all observers and a Happy New Year!
Bob
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