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Forums › Erbium Lasers › General Erbium Discussion › Visibility of bone – Biology of crown lengthening

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  • June 17, 2004 at 2:06 am #7722

    Dan Melker
    Spectator

    Jeff,
    All you have to do is go to Dental Town under Periodontal Section and look for cases I have posted or D. Kimmel has posted for me. I purposefully did not show my cases before and after. Reason being I was trying to discuss Biology and not scalpel surgery vs. laser. I was trying to have us learn from what we see. Your tone was not the old working relationship everyone talks about. So I will break away from the Biology aspect of this thread and show you cases tomorrow that you can compare before and after-true perio-rest. problems. Quite a few have already seen perio-rest that I have. This forum is a laser forum and I have been trying to work within these confines. Thanks for opening up the opportunity to show what I CONSIDER success-PINK healthy tissue after treating perio-involver rest cases. Disease is present everywhere!.
    Danny

    June 17, 2004 at 2:30 am #7707

    Anonymous
    Guest
    QUOTE
    Quote: from dkimmel on 8:24 pm on June 16, 2004
    Danny if you know what the BLW is at the time of sx, would not that same BLW be recreated after the sx. That is to say if the BWL was 5mm on the central after your osseous reduction would you not expect to get a 5mm BLW again?

    While we are at it what detemines BLW? Why is there such a range?

    DAvid

    My questions exactly ,David.
    How did you decide on the distance between the red arrows (assuming 1-2 mm sulcus)?
    DISCLAIMER- Whitening of the restorations was done in Photoshop and not w/ a laser.;)

    cej1.jpg

    June 17, 2004 at 2:33 am #7723

    Dan Melker
    Spectator

    Jeff,
    I have sent Ron and several Dentists that use lasers my long term cases. I am not here to show how good I am but thank you for giving me the opportunity. If you have 5 minutes you can go to DT and see cases that one can only dream of.
    1.Under Cosmetic Dentistry D. Kimmel posted for me- Anterior Reverse Crown Lengthening. Guaranteed you have never seen this result. #7 started longer than #6 and #8 and after surgery is in perfect cosmetic location with perfect pink tissue
    2.Under Periodontics-title-Perio-Pros another anterior case. Started with black triangles, perio disease terrible tissue. Ended up with pink tissue no black triangles. Oh yeh thats normal post op perio-rest.
    3.Cosmetic Dentistry-You have NEVER seen this turning a cuspid into a lateral incisor. You want to talk biology explain how I did it. NO ONE has ever done it but ME!
    4.Cosmetic Dentistry-Ideal Rest through perio surgery-hey-where did the abfractive lesion go?
    5.Periodontics-recession and grafting. Hey where did the roots go?
    Routinely, I have talked about the use of the laser in a very favorable light. Tell me how you could do any Closed Cl on the cases I showed with a laser?
    Tomorrow, I will post some cases. You be the judge.
    People had asked me to post the cases I did.
    Danny
    Thanks for making me welcome!

    June 17, 2004 at 2:46 am #7725

    Dan Melker
    Spectator

    Ron,
    It really goes back to the original perio-rest consult. Bill and I discussed how long we would like the centrals to be. We chose 101/2-11mm. So surgically when I opened the case up I used a length of 14mm. from where we would want the inicisal edge to the location on the bone that I would need to remove. I removed non-supporting since it was within the Biologic Width. When I placed the tissue back on the tooth the clinical crown was about 10-101/2mm. allowing a tad lengthening of inicisal edge in rest. Room for BW 3mm. I allowed 7 weeks to see if we were going in the right direction as far as esthetics anf BW. No touch was necessary.
    Thanks,
    Danny
    Usually I try to may the clinical crown of the centrals 101/2-11mm. long and laterals a touch shorter.

    June 17, 2004 at 9:32 am #7726

    Dan Melker
    Spectator

    Those of you that look at the cases showing bone and root surface should be thinking about BIOLOGY. As I have said over and over use what ever tool you want just follow Biology.
    Jeff has asked me to post cases of which I will do today.
    I have asked him to post follow ups of the soft tissue case he posted where he GV’ed and a frenectomy on a little girl. Originally I e-mailed him privately to talk about the case. I said:
    1. The maxillary will relapse because a GV will not work. You need to create a space for the BW or relapse will occur.(osseous recontouring)
    2. Graft still will be needed on # 24. Doing the frenectomy did not solve the lack of AG
    This forum should be for learning. How to use the instruments we have not I have an instrument so I will use it.
    I have received quite a few private e-mails thanking me for showing the Biology of bone and soft tissue.
    If you all think this forum should be for only the uses of the laser then I will be happy to stop posting. My mistake I thought this forum was about learning not the misuse of our tools!
    Danny

    (Edited by Dan Melker at 6:24 am on June 17, 2004)

    June 17, 2004 at 5:15 pm #7713

    kellyjblodgettdmd
    Spectator

    Danny, I appreciate the cases you are posting. They are help ful in visualizing your points. However, your chest thumping seems a bit much (i.e. – Cosmetic Dentistry-You have NEVER seen this turning a cuspid into a lateral incisor. You want to talk biology explain how I did it. NO ONE has ever done it but ME!)

    One of the aspects I have appreciated so greatly on this forum is the general atmosphere of humility.

    Just something to consider.

    Kelly

    June 17, 2004 at 6:25 pm #7717

    Dan Melker
    Spectator

    I just e-mailed Kelly in disbelief! Jeff can berate me and that is o.k. As I said to Kelly read Jeff’s comments, he asked me to post cases. I did not want to. MY intention was to talk BIOLOGY something that several of us know nothing about. I purposely confined my cases to just seeing bone with alittle trt, no final pictures just talking about bone. Jeff gets all over me and I quess I should have ignored HIM like several people on this forum told me to. I love what I do and I  felt I should prove to JEFF i could back up what I can do.
    Kelly jumped all over me for my choice of words. Hey Kelly what about the material!
    Sorry you did not like my ego getting in the way.
    I was going give up and stop wasting my time but alot people want to learn about BIOLOGY and using tools within the scope of BIOLOGY. So to you Kelly ignore me and to you JEff show me a comparison of your cases.
    Otherwise leave me alone and let we work with the guys that want tounderstand what they are doing and why!
    Danny

    (Edited by Dan Melker at 2:36 pm on June 17, 2004)

    June 17, 2004 at 6:48 pm #7709

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Enough already mad.gif

    This thread is closed until June 30th when I get back from the Dominican Republic.

    When I get back I’ll see what everyone’s demeanor is and decide whether to reopen.

    P.S. Thanks to all who called and P.M’d regarding this thread. I appreciate your input.

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