Forums Erbium Lasers General Erbium Discussion Waterlase handpieces

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  • #2935 Reply

    emc85
    Spectator

    can someone explain to me why if you don’t purge water from the waterlase handpieces when you initially place the handpieces into the trunk fiber and changing tips, the handpieces get fried cuz the mirror got wet? isn’t there water in the handpiece anyways when it is working, so shouldn’t the mirror get fried, too?

    #7343 Reply

    Robert Gregg DDS
    Spectator
    QUOTE
    Quote: from emc85 on 8:02 am on Dec. 6, 2003
    can someone explain to me why if you don’t purge water from the waterlase handpieces when you initially place the handpieces into the trunk fiber and changing tips, the handpieces get fried cuz the mirror got wet?  isn’t there water in the handpiece anyways when it is working, so shouldn’t the mirror get fried, too?

    I’ll try to give you a first stab at an answer. Al Williams can probably give you a better answer than me.

    Not sure what part of the handpiece is getting fried. You mean the distal end of the metal?

    In general, when you couple the handpiece to the trunk fiber, it is designed to seal and exclude water from the erbium beam path where the optical fiber terminates in a metal coupler and where mirrors are used to reflect the erbium/chromium photons (highly absorbed into water) to the tips and out to the tissue.

    Water from the trunk fiber passes out through the handpiece through a different as separate pathway and outlet, once it’s coupled, so that it can be atomized/sprayed in front of the beam path in air and on to target tissue.

    If the mirrors or metal inside are not dry, the water on them acts as an absorbing “pigment” that absorbes into the water and reflects the beam back onto the metal around the optical fiber terminus. The result is a thermal event that “fries” the metal on the handpiece.

    Hope that helps a little.

    I need to take a closer look at the Waterlase (v1) we have to get a better idea……..

    Bob

    #7331 Reply

    dkimmel
    Spectator

    This is one problem with the waterlase. Some people seem to have a problem with it and other do not. I really am not sure why. I have had my share of fried mirrors.
    Bob is right about the water being sealed form the light path. Water has a way getting into most anything. That is why you want to purge is necessary.
    Here are a couple of things that might help.
    Make sure the air is always running when changing tips and handpieces.
    If your staff whips down the handpiece make sure the air is on. Fluids can make enter the handpiece from around the tip.
    Make sure the tips are all the way inserted.
    Make sure the Handpiece is full seated on the trunk fiber.
    On autoclaving make sure the caps are full seated.
    Make sure the handpieces are not left to bake in the autocalve. O-rings are what makes the seal. Once they have harden they no longer seal well.
    Always check your mirrors after autoclaving for foging.
    It is a good idea to check your mirrors prior to use.

    Once you get into these habits you should not have any problems. I’ll try to post some photo’s for you later.
    DAvid

    #7344 Reply

    Swpmn
    Spectator
    QUOTE
    can someone explain to me why if you don’t purge water from the waterlase handpieces when you initially place the handpieces into the trunk fiber and changing tips, the handpieces get fried cuz the mirror got wet?  isn’t there water in the handpiece anyways when it is working, so shouldn’t the mirror get fried, too?

    This is an outstanding but complicated question. I don’t really know the complete answer but Dr. Gregg has provided as good a response as anyone. Your question is really making us think. I believe Dr. Mark Colonna has a lot of knowledge on this subject and he can probably help us out.

    First of all, don’t envision the interaction within the Waterlase trunk fiber and handpiece/mirror as that of air, water and 2780 erbium laser light. There should be three separate inputs with a central optical conduit for the erbium light and two peripheral tube or line inputs for air and water. At no point along the trunk fiber, in the handpiece or on the mirror should the erbium light be allowed to interact with water. As Dr. Gregg pointed out, if this happens it may result in a “frying” or burning of components within the fiber or handpiece due to the 2780 wavelength’s affinity for water molecules.

    The central optical conduit should be completely sealed from water and directed onto the mirror to deflect the erbium photons at a right angle and down the sapphire tips. An air/water mixing chamber must exist within the head of the Waterlase handpiece which is peripheral to the central light conduit. 2780 photon interaction with water should only be exhibited distal to the end of the sapphire tip:

    williamsa120603-1.jpg

    The question for us now becomes “How can the photon deflection mirror get wet?”. Is there leakage in the system as Dr. Kimmel proposed? Can the mirror only get wet by autoclaving the handpiece? If the system is sealed, how can reattaching the handpiece with air on “blow” off any water on the mirror? A friend with a great deal of engineering background once suggested to me that with our high humidity and variations in air conditioning in Florida, condensation may occur within the optical portion of the Waterlase trunk fiber. Biolase engineers assured me this is not possible.

    You’ve posed an excellent question. I think if you follow Dr. Kimmel’s recommendations you won’t have any problems. The technology is still emerging and we need better answers for these questions.

    Al

    #7334 Reply

    emc85
    Spectator

    thanks, guys!

    i posed that to my rep and she couldn’t really come up with a good enough answer.

    it still makes me go hmmmmm:

    if i am just changing a tip then. the handpiece should be sealed. why then should i still purge with air as i am changing the tip, and theoretically, should not be breaking any seals?

    just thought i would ask.

    norman

    #7341 Reply

    Glenn van As
    Spectator

    Hey Norman……what a surprise, but what a shame, that she couldnt come up with an answer.

    I will also say that I dont think I could do all the steps to clean up and change the tips that you guys do…….I am glad that it is a relatively easy chore to do with the Delight as I am sure that I would fry out a ton of fibers.

    Its something that I am sure will eventually be solved but until then I guess the Waterlase users must be diligent in changing tips etc.

    Glenn

    #7335 Reply

    emc85
    Spectator

    glenn

    i am still searching for answers…i am looking at my laser options. my decision will be the same as everyone else…waterlase or delight? still doing my due diligence.

    i am still trying to understand the mechanics of each machine. they are both good…but it is the minute details and hassles that will probably win me over.

    i want to thank everyone with their professional insights. this forum is terrific for us neanderthal dentists that don’t own a hard tissue laser…i am learning a lot from everyone’s postings and pix.

    waterlase or delight…you are all doing amazing things.

    norman

    #7339 Reply

    Glenn van As
    Spectator

    Great reply and yes Norman both machines are capable of doing marvelous things. I am sure that Opus , Deka , and Kavo are also capable of doing nice things in the right persons hands as well.

    Do your due diligence and continue to peruse the fine clinical cases that are posted here to figure out what lasers can do.

    Glenn

    #7332 Reply

    dkimmel
    Spectator

    Picture time!!
    hpweb1.jpghpweb2.jpg
    hpweb3.jpghpweb4.jpg
    hpweb5.jpghpweb6.jpg
    hpweb7.jpghpweb8.jpg
    hpweb9.jpg
    DAvid

    (Edited by dkimmel at 9:46 am on Dec. 7, 2003)

    (Edited by dkimmel at 9:47 am on Dec. 7, 2003)

    #7336 Reply

    emc85
    Spectator

    david

    thanks…you obviously know what you are talking about. i want to thank you personally for taking the time to do those pix so i can see what fried mirrors look like…hopefully, you didn’t have to sacrifice one on purpose on my behalf. can i ask you how many handpieces you have gone through before you figured it all out? please reply to me confidentially via email. i am only trying to find what is going to work best for me.

    go niners!!!
    norman

    #7333 Reply

    dkimmel
    Spectator

    I have fired about 5 mirrors. They can replace the mirrors and reuse the HP. They do not want us changing mirriors.
    This is was all a training issue. The rep that trained my staff is no longer with the company. He was ill and was not up to his usual self. The repair tech figured out what was going on and has us back on track..
    I use the laser a bunch and the staff does the turn around prep between each patient. I just test fire before using and go to work. I now check to make sure they have set everything up correctly before the test fire. Now that I check they always do it the right way.
    David

    #7340 Reply

    Glenn van As
    Spectator

    Thanks David , excellent pictures, gosh its tough to think about all those things before you go to work on each patient. I would have blown 2X as many fibers and tips as you have.

    Wow, great thread, and again thanks for your great posts……..

    Glenn

    #7345 Reply

    Swpmn
    Spectator
    QUOTE
    i posed that to my rep and she couldn’t really come up with a good enough answer.

    it still makes me go hmmmmm:

    if i am just changing a tip then.  the handpiece should be sealed.  why then should i still purge with air as i am changing the tip, and theoretically, should not be breaking any seals?

    just thought i would ask.

    norman

    Norman:

    In an attempt to accurately answer your questions I alerted Biolase engineers to this thread and asked for clarification and specific recommendations. These guidelines are posted in the Engineering and Maintenance section of LDF for the benefit of all users:

    1) The Waterlase delivery system has an optical conduit for the erbium beam. There are three additional and separate input lines: air to cool the fiber, water for spray, air for atomization of water spray.

    2) Optical conduit is only completely sealed from water when the tips and handpiece are in place.

    3) When the tip is removed a seal is broken and water could get back into the handpiece head and onto the mirror. It is recommended that tips only be changed with the Waterlase in the READY mode so that the fiber cooling air line blows any water out of the handpiece head and off the mirror.

    4) When the handpiece is removed another seal is broken. It it is therefore recommended that the handpieces be dried out or purged of water prior to removal. Easiest way to purge water from the handpiece:

    a) Waterlase is in STANDBY mode
    b) Set Waterlase to pre-set #1(90% air, 75% water)
    c) Turn water bottle toggle switch to OFF
    d) Scroll the air and water settings to ON mode
    e) Press READY button and water will be pushed out of the handpiece
    f) Press STANDBY button and then turn off the laser

    Dried handpiece may now be autoclaved with proximal and distal tips in place. If you don’t disconnect the handpiece there is no need to purge water from the system. Always store the laser with tip removed and distal sealing cap in place on the handpiece.

    5) In high humidity areas or when there has been a rapid change in temperature, it may be possible for condensation to occur within the handpiece head and on the mirror. In such cases, it is recommended to remove the distal sealing cap from the handpiece and then set the Waterlase to the READY mode for 30 seconds prior to attaching the tip for use. This will blow out any water which may have condensed on the mirror or in the handpiece head.

    Al

    #7337 Reply

    2thlaser
    Spectator

    Al,

    Very nice post….just an addition to the protocol, if one is to remove the handpiece….

    4) When the handpiece is removed another seal is broken. It it is therefore recommended that the handpieces be dried out or purged of water prior to removal. Easiest way to purge water from the handpiece:

    a) Waterlase is in STANDBY mode
    b) Set Waterlase to pre-set #1(90% air, 75% water)
    c) Turn water bottle toggle switch to OFF
    d) Scroll the air and water settings to ON mode
    e) Press READY button and water will be pushed out of the handpiece…….DO THIS FOR ABOUT 90 Sec!!!!*****
    f) Press STANDBY button and then turn off the laser

    #7342 Reply

    Glenn van As
    Spectator

    I know that since Mark and others started following these steps that frying of fibers, mirror and handpieces is way down.

    Nice to see that they have ironed out a protocol to lessen the costly and frustrating down times. Nobody who learns to love their laser likes when it is down regardless of which one you have.

    Glenn

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