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Glenn van AsSpectatorHere is the man himself………….
Glenn
I couldnt resist for April fools day!!!
[img]https://www.laserdentistryforum.com/attachments/upload/Resize of Don & Glenn.JPG[/img]
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Lee AllenSpectatorPat,
Thanks for the reply. Sounds like we practice in the same conservative way, and I think my patients appreciate giving them a chance to avoid some dental procedure. It can be a relationship building experience as well if it does not work as hoped: they are more resigned to the endo and do not wonder if we are inventing things to do but have their best interest at heart.
Lee
2thlaserSpectatorBoy, I sure like you guys. I hope I am the same. I really have done quite a few of these, and so far so good. I had one today, that without the use of my spoon excavators, and of course, the laser, we probably would have had a carious/mechanical exposure. BUT, we didn’t, and now we hopefully put off another endodontic procedure for this patient. It’s really a win/win when it works isn’t it?
Mark
2thlaserSpectatorDid you hydrokinetically comb your hair Glenn?;)
RodSpectatorQUOTEQuote: from Patricio on 7:56 pm on Mar. 25, 2003
Rod,
Could you say a little more on how you created the new sulcus with the thin instrument? Did you remove bone with your laser? Will you anticipate some recession from the festooning as the tissues heal?Pat
Hi Pat,
We know that the ‘biologic width includes some fibrous AND epithelial attachment. Once you’ve removed soft tissue down to the fibrous attachment, the epithelial attachment is all gone. The fibrous attachment is pretty tenacious stuff, and left as-is will tend to promote some re-growth of tissue, which we do NOT want.
So what I do is take an explorer or perio probe and run it down, back and forth, between the fibrous gingival tissue and the root. Then I take the tip of my Biolase LaserSmile/Twilight laser into this ‘sulcus’ that I just opened up and run it back ‘n forth too. This will remove the fibers so that we have a better chance of forming an epithelial attachment along with re-establishing some fibrous attachment (therefore a new ‘biologic width’ with both fibrous and epithelial attachment). This means that the tissue doesn’t have to try to re-grow height to create an epithelial attachment.
No, in this case I did not need to remove bone, based on the depth of the bone sounding. By the way….”bone sounding”….I’ve always wondered what bone REALLY ‘sounds’ like. 😉
And no, I do NOT anticipate ANY recession from the festooning. Actually I expect regrowth of the epithelial layer over the festooned fibrous gingival tissue — but not enough to make any difference. It will NOT recede because the remaining tissue is VERY fibrous (read ‘durable’).
Rod
Robert Gregg DDSSpectatorHi Rod,
This ought to be a very nice end result.:)
Would you explain your technique for festooning the tissues?
What laser device, fiber, “mode” did you use (activated versus non-activated fiber) and motion of the fiber did you use?
I’m asking because what you did is not as easy as it might appear, and a good discussion might be helpful to all.
I always get a little nervous using near-infrared lasers (diodes or pulsed Nd:YAGs) for thinning fibrous tissue on the facial since these wavelengths are poorly absorbed in fibrous and conective tissue.
I remember 4 years into using lasers–and thinking I was pretty experienced–(read that as cocky) and I treated a case like this. I used water to “cool” the tissue as I was “debulking” the fibrous tissue. Well, all I was really doing was cooling the tip of my fiber, and warming (read that necrosing) the fibrous tissue beneath, instead of removing it.:o
For two weeks (and it took about 48 hours to start hurting) my patient had a very painful recovery as the tissue died, sloughed off, and regrew!
The good news is that all the tissue regenerated, and it is now “bullet proof” tissue, in that the collagen that repaired in the area is very prolific and redundant tissue, making it “tense” not thickened or hypertrophied.
Anyway, this can be achieved with a very satisfactory and confortable outcome if one does not do what I did 8 years ago. And the tissue appearance looks as though Rod did it right!
By the way–I have a video tape of what I was doing on this patient/case–if anyone whats to see how NOT to do it! You can imagine I don’t show it very often. In fact, it has been gathering a lot of dust!! I guess it’s remarkable because it doesn’t look like anything harmfull is taking place……
Thanks for posting Rod.
Bob
Robert GreggParticipantHi Ray,
Sorry for the late response:
QUOTECan tech support and service be obtained for ADT equipment when they finally go under?Yes, that won’t be a problem…….I know a couple of companies positioning themselves to take advantage of ADT’s demise.
Here’s the latest gravest news:
April 1, 2003 filing for delay of 10K annual report to SEC and the reason for the delay:
“A preliminary audit of the results of operations for the Company in 2002 indicates that the Company’s net operating loss increased from approximately Ŭ million in 2001 to approximately ů million in 2002, principally as a result of increased restructuring costs and inventory write downs. “
dkimmelSpectatorAnyone doing anything with LLLT and topicals. We had a TMD patient in today and had placed a topical. 5% Gabapentin,4% ketoprofen in an organo gel . I then used the lasersmile. We get pretty good absorption of this topical ,it just seemed that we got absorbtion after theuse of the laser. One of thre topicals also has Lidocaine and it is forsure absorbed faster with the use of the laser.
David
dkimmelSpectatorAfter doing my first osseous crownlengthing you guys are too kind. It would take far too long to take a tori off. At least one of any size plus the water spray!
David
SwpmnSpectatorI avoid attempting to remove amalgam stains with the Biolase Erbium. Resulting “white” sparks/flashback may result in damage to handpiece mirror or trunk fiber.
Al
SwpmnSpectatorProbably would.
How’d the crown lengthening go?
Al
RodSpectatorHi Bob,
Can’t remember if I went into the technique here, on the DentalTown message boards, or on the DentalTown case presentation site — guess it’s age-related brain fade, huh?
Anyway, I didn’t use a laser at all to festoon the tissue. Yes, the gingival margin area I used a diode with an itiated tip. But then to blend it in and do the festooning of the surface I used a wheel diamond in a highspeed. I use the flat end of the wheel, and tilt it just a little as I ‘paint away’ the tissue.
Then after the festooning (thinning and blending it into the new gingival margin) of the tissue, I used the Waterlase in exactly the same way I’d use it when treating a canker sore. I simply coated the surface a couple times at a low wattage and no water (such that the surface became white).
And just like a canker sore, it worked like a charm. The patient (who is a dentist himself, and a recognized Townie) has done great and emails me almost every day.
After a day he was a little alarmed that the papillas seemed to be rapidly re-growing. He had always HATED his thick, fat, bulbous papillas, and he was totally flipped out at the thin, knife edge papillas we ened up with.
So when he saw the tissue growing rapidly after a day, he freaked. I told him not to worry. Hypertrophy doesn’t happen that fast. I told him is was simply a bit of edema and would go back to where we’d put it (although I’d taken it away more than I wanted it, in anticipation of growing a new epithelial covering, which it will do).
Anyway, after about three days the edema did go away and the tissue went right back.
But as far as pain, it’s not been an issue.
I haven’t seen him since the surgery, but he is totally excited about the outcome. I should be seeing him probably within the next week. I’ll take photos of the 2-3 week post-op and post them.
And yes, I’d agree. I’d never want to do that sort of festooning with a laser. The diamond is great because I can ‘feel’ what I’m doing and can sculpt VERY quickly. The festooning took me no more than two minutes, and probably less.
But without the laser to desensitize those cut nerve ends after the festooning, holy moly — PAIN would have been the result — BIG TIME!!
By the way, the post-op photo was taken AFTER desensitizing the surface with the Waterlase. Even though the Waterlase turns the surface white as you use it, as soon as it gets wet, the white disappears.
Rod
(Edited by Rod at 1:31 am on April 3, 2003)
PatricioSpectatorHey Mark,
About them spoons? Where be dey?
PAT
PatricioSpectatorAl,
I agree but at the same time I am lasering in a more defocused position. The particles are so small that if they did not flash you would not know they are there. They spark more than arc. Many of these amalgam preps are already over preped from the stand point of tooth integrity and if the laser can be successfully used a more conservative quicker result can be achieved.Maybe I’ll get that service contract after all.
Pat
dkimmelSpectatorAl
The crownlengthing went OK. Seemed like it took longer then it did. I don’t have a real feel for contouring the tissue. Felt like I was punching a bunch of little holes in the tissue and bone and not leaving it as smooth as I would like. The patient had no discomfort the next day. I was able to get a great impression. My total time from start to final impression was 50 min. with two Hygiene check inbetween.
Bottomline is it was great but my confindence level is still low. Will try to get a few family members to practice on this weekend. Think my mother inlay needs some work!
David -
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