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adminSpectatorThanks for the info, Mike.
I’m off to Fl for about 10 days so when I get back I’ll try and get it all incorporated and post a ‘final’ draft.
wagoodellSpectatorRon
Have fun in Florida, hope you get lots of warm sunshine. 🙂
The letter looks great to me, and seems to hit the relative points very well.It looks like (Mike’s letter from the OFIR) until the ADA laser position paper is changed (it’s errors corrected) we will be screwed, and the damage done by it’s inaccuracies may be long term and slow to be turned around. That is what creates the urgency with this whole matter. It has the potential to create a windfall for the insurance industry as it uses the ADA laser position paper to avoid paying claims when lasers were used, while making it much more costly for dentists to provide, and patients to receive the best (out comes) care available.
Walt
John LeitnerSpectatorHi Ron – looks good. You’ve mentioned instrumentation and methods in your letter, I’m wondering if using a different example would help (ie: RCT’s done not by hand files and filled with lateral condensation GP, but reamed with handpiece rotary files and filled with warm GP) might drive home our fight. It is bigger than the ‘laser’ usage – they are telling us what to do and not. Thanx for your efforts. John
John LeitnerSpectatorI’ve been emailing Norm Wilhelmsen some about what is going on with the focused review thing. He said the president of the MI periodontists has a laser and he is going to make contact with him regarding the laser usage. Also, he is thinking of having Ray Yukna come for the 2011 MDA meeting and speak. Not sure where this will go currently. It really was great to meet you all last week. Next time can we serve Kool-Aid? John
Michael AielloSpectatorJohn,
Concerning the laser angle to our argument, with your contacts I suggest that we stress that this is about the use of lasers not LANAP. If you need any copies of the Delta rejection letters let me know. These letters clearly show that Delta will not “accept” anything new if it deviates from the method they (not the ADA) determine is required.
Delta likes to cite the AAP and ADA position paper but they ignore the ADA direct response to them as well as this from the AAP website:
Will my insurance carrier cover the use of a laser in periodontal therapy?
Insurance carriers reimburse for the procedure being performed rather than the device used to perform it. Therefore, whether your periodontist uses traditional tools for treatment or lasers, your reimbursement will be the same for that specific procedure. Before having surgery, always consult with your insurance carrier to determine what procedures are covered in your plan.
Mike
John LeitnerSpectatorHi Mike – actually I thought it was the ‘osseous’ part of the procedure they are hitting on (which is the ultrasonic nicking). Not so much the ‘laser’ part of it – I must be tired tonite – correct me if I’m wrong. I know – no cutting, no sutures, and that stuff. Heck – I’ve got a patient with Metlife that didn’t have lanap and 5mm pockets and bleeding all over that was ‘refused’ treatment payment because of lack of need by the company. Go figure! John
Michael AielloSpectatorDelta has put in their rejection letters that all of the following is needed: 1) Full thickness flap with scalpel 2) Appropriate osteotomy or osteoplasty of alveolar bone and 3) Flap incision wound closed with suture needle and suture material.
Apparently, even if you lay a full thickness flap with anything other than a scalpel that is reason enough for denial. Same goes for stabilizing or closing flaps with anything other than sutures.
At this time don’t expect any help from the ADA. I had a few discussions over the last two weeks with people that represent the ADA Council on Dental Benefits and they don’t feel the ADA can do anything about this unless ADA legal takes it up. Per the representatives of the the Benefits Council, ADA legal won’t take it up since there is not enough dentists effected.
adminSpectatorAnyone have copies of the Yukna study as well as Tilt’s retrospective in AGD journal?
If so please send to rschalter@gmail.comThanks!
adminSpectatorSpoke today with Chuck Hoopingarner who is head of ALD regulatory affairs committee. There is/has been a response to the ADA laser postion paper in the works. They have found that the ADA staff person who is responsible for bringing these things to the ADA council is unresponsive to the idea, therefore, they will actually draft a new position paper and have it presented by one of the trustees and bypass the ADA staffer. Potential timeline on this solution 9 months or more. I got drafted to help work on the committee to rewrite the paper.
As far as coding, I don’t think the ALD will be helpful. Chuck had no idea the bone was altered during LANAP. I didn’t tell him how it was done but assured him it was. For ALD to get involved in the coding would probably require the technique be disclosed at least to the committee. Chuck did seem to indicate a willingness to sign non disclosures.
Chuck also suggested trying to involve AGD as they had a turf war in Houston with orthos and AGD was helpful.
There also seemed a willingness on Chuck’s part at least to get past some of the old politics and try and bring Bob and Del back into ALD.
wagoodellSpectatorDr Tilt supplied a copy of a statement from the American College of Surgeons.
http://www.facs.org/fellows_info/statements/st-11.html
The link above goes to their statement about lasers as an equivalent means of doing surgery. 4th paragraph.
I’m going to use it with a letter back to OFIR objecting to Delta’s use of the AAP & ADA laser position statements (with all of the inaccuracies and not relevant claims to LANAP in those statements) to claim use of lasers are investigational in nature.Walt
raviSpectatorI have seen the similar cases in my clinic with sharp margins of attrided tooth, thanks for giving me courage to treat with lasers. thanks again. nice case and very nice series of photographs. will upload soon my cases ..
VancouverLaserSpectatorI’ve used the MD for two years at a previous clinic as an associate and am looking at getting something equivalent for my new place. There are second hand MDs for sale, but what brand would you recomend to buy? I’m concerned about tech support and longevity with a second hand MD.
Thanks,
Tim
VancouverLaserSpectatorI’ve used the MD for two years at a previous clinic as an associate and am looking for something equivalent for my new place. Reading through the posts it looks like biolase is in trouble so I’m concerned about tech support and longevity with a second hand MD, although they are tempting at 30k.
I am new to lasers – I’ve had some success with restorative with the MD, great results with perio treatments, and I have tried it on bone but wasn’t able to cut well at all. If there are machines that perform better for restorative and surgery I would be very interested even at the higher price. What would you recommend?
Thank you for your advice,
Sincerely,Tim Hodgson
Vancouver, Canada
BenchwmerSpectatorFor Huong to find Case
John LeitnerSpectatorStrange – I haven’t heard anything from Delta yet either. I did send in one of the three cases they asked for with one year post-op probings (I know, they didn’t ask for that!). Maybe they saw the numbers and it made them think — NAHHH! The patient and I were quite happy with them, maybe Delta wasn’t. I could send them the other one year post-ops now, but I won’t stir it up again. Waiting….
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