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czeqm8SpectatorThere are a couple of things with the scaling procedure that are different with the protocol from Mellinium than what is mentioned here. I will let Bob chime in if he chooses. I am not able to teach the LANAP protocol. It is a patented procedure. The way I understand it, if I tell you they will hunt me down and …… Just kidding. I just don’t think that I can do a good job with the instruction, and I am sure Bob will see this soon.
Matt
Robert Gregg DDSSpectatorQUOTEQuote: from Swpmn on 1:03 pm on July 5, 2005
I’m evaluating the Lares PowerLase AT this weekend in Orlando. Help me make a list of questions.Unit also has a free-running pulsed 1064nm Nd:YAG with 15Watt maximum Average Power. Whew that seems like a lot!
Pulse Duration on Nd:YAG is 100, 180 and 320usec. No 650? Repitition rate 10-100Hz.
Erbium is delivered via articulated arm, Nd:YAG from a separate optical fiber.
15 watts is a lot of FRP Nd:YAG! Far more than needed for dentistry.
Lares uses the “Full Width Full Max” (FWFM) method of calculating Pulse Duration. Most manufacturers and conventions use “Full Width Half Max” (FWHM). It is calculated off an oscilloscope from the waveform of the pulse duration that appears on the scope.
So the Powerlase AT Nd:YAG is more like 150, 300, 1000 usec measured at FWHM, instead of 100, 180 and 320 usec measured FWFM…..
Not to confuse you, of course, but just one more layer to understanding what temporal emission mode you need to know about a study M&M or manufacturer’s claims.
Bob
Robert Gregg DDSSpectatorHey Allen,
We taught Lares everything they know about laser perio–but not everything we know.:cool:
Yet, we continue to learn about laser perio as we still practice what we innovated–and patented.
Laser SoftCare is a poor substitute/knock-off for LANAP. (Now you all know a key reason we patented the procedure!)
Laser SoftCare has no scientific or clinical data or studies to support their methodology in the same manner in which Millennium has for LANAP. Everything they reference is other people’s stuff and old methodologies repackaged as SoftCare.
I’m sure any pending or near-future 510(k) application for Laser ANAP would have nothing to reference other than the PerioLase MVP-7 as a “predicate” device.
Even if some company could get FDA clearance for Laser ANAP, and could successfully avoid patent/copyright litigation from Millennium Dental–it isn’t just knowing the parameters and the steps within the steps of the LANAP protocol, but knowing when to use what and how. That’s all part of training of the sort you cannot get on some CD-ROM for ALD recognized Standard Proficiency and some pig jaw and black ink on paper exercises.
So like Ron stated, sometimes 150 is a more appropriate hemostasis setting under certain circumstances.
The various circumstances are not likely to be known by a manufacturer w/o clinical expertise–or their incompletely trained substitute clinicians who may have slept through Bootcamp and/or not completed Day 4.
Maybe later I’ll tell you what I REALLY think @&^%$
Bob
SwpmnSpectatorQUOTEI can’t imagine a hygienist 1st doing SRP. How are they going to get adequate access? Is Lares still providing their training via CD?Thanks, Ron, and that appears to be one of the key differences in the protocols, that LPT is a dentist-only CONSERVATIVE form of periodontal surgery. The dentist uses the Nd:YAG laser to open the gingival sulcus for access to roots, calculus and pathogens. Isn’t another reason for the first pass with Nd:YAG is that the laser treatment may alter calculus composition/adherence and perhaps facilitate removal?
Lares provides the user with CD training. There is an option to have a Lares clinician come to the dentist’s office and instruct the doctor while procedures are performed on his/her patients. Appears that this is not included in the fee for the laser unit itself. Rather easy to see that this type of education would pale in comparison to the comprehensive training mandated by MDT.
SwpmnSpectatorQUOTEAllen, you have a fax this morning and we look forward to hearing your impressions.Ron:
Thank you for the fax.
SwpmnSpectatorQUOTELares uses the “Full Width Full Max” (FWFM) method of calculating Pulse Duration. Most manufacturers and conventions use “Full Width Half Max” (FWHM). It is calculated off an oscilloscope from the waveform of the pulse duration that appears on the scope.So the Powerlase AT Nd:YAG is more like 150, 300, 1000 usec measured at FWHM, instead of 100, 180 and 320 usec measured FWFM…..
Not to confuse you, of course, but just one more layer to understanding what temporal emission mode you need to know about a study M&M or manufacturer’s claims.
Bob
Bob:
Actually, this does confuse and I’m disappointed we don’t have a standardized method of measuring Pulse Duration in order to make objective comparisons across different manufacturers.
Is there a simple method to convert and standardize FWFM vs. FWHM PD numbers?
To add to the confusion, on one of the pages I’ve downloaded from Lares, there is an asterisk(*) next to mention of the 120usec PD. The footnote states: Full width half maximum. This is in reference to the Lares PowerLase ST6 Nd:YAG.
SwpmnSpectatorMatt and Bob:
That’s cool guys – not asking anyone to reveal proprietory information and appreciate your comments. My objective is to have an accurate, general knowledge of the protocols and be able to differentiate the procedures as well as their respective Nd:YAG systems.
AnonymousSpectatorQUOTEQuote: from Swpmn on 4:25 pm on July 6, 2005
Isn’t another reason for the first pass with Nd:YAG is that the laser treatment may alter calculus composition/adherence and perhaps facilitate removal?Correct. Seems like the number I remember is 30% easier removal. I’ll see if I can find the study but I bet Bob G. probably has it
AnonymousSpectatorFor more info you may download their brochure here!
jetsfanSpectatorMY turn to chime in.
I am treating a 20+ yr old female who developed a parasthesia to lingual nerve on her right side following 3rd molar extraction 2 years ago.
She has no sensation on the dorsum, lateral or ventral surface of tongue. Additionally she says that her lingual gingiva is without feeling.
Using a sharp explorer I determined she was in fact unable to feel pain.
I explained to her what some here have been doing and
told her that I might be able to help her. She of course was willing to try anything.
Using the Lasersmile handpiece, set at 10 W I administered LLLT for 2 min on the dorsum, 2 on lateral surface and 2 on the lingual gingiva. I had patient return 2 days later. She said she definitely started to feel a sensation on the lingual gingiva. I repeated the process and again 2 days later.
She returned today and I repeated process again then I checked all affected areas with a sharp explorer. On all previous numb areas she was able to feel the pin(not the pressure but the sharp pricking). Needless to say she is very happy. I will continue one more visit this week then skip a week and reevaluate.
Any suggestions?Robert
Robert Gregg DDSSpectatorBob:
Actually, this does confuse and I’m disappointed we don’t have a standardized method of measuring Pulse Duration in order to make objective comparisons across different manufacturers.
Tell me about it. At least you now know that you have to ask what convention is being used…….Remember that this discussion and awareness is largey new to most with lasers. But now that several manufacturers have seen the value in this “marketing gimick”, more doctors will become aware of this next layer of the laser onion.
Is there a simple method to convert and standardize FWFM vs. FWHM PD numbers?
No, not really because the numbers depend on whether the pulse is Bell shaped or square shaped. Square shaped will give you similar numbers at the middle of the oscilloscope and at the top of the square-shaped waveform on the scope–in theory at least.
Whereas a Bell shaped pulse will have a rise time and a peak that varies. So the analog pulse is fatter in the middle (FWHM) and narrow at the top (FWFM).
To add to the confusion, on one of the pages I’ve downloaded from Lares, there is an asterisk(*) next to mention of the 120usec PD. The footnote states: Full width half maximum. This is in reference to the Lares PowerLase ST6 Nd:YAG.
I know. That has been a typo in their literature since October 1999. It should be FWFM.
No need for me to advise them, was there? I mean, their CD-ROM is a complete Standard Proficiency with certification and blessings from the ALD, so everyone associated with that information should know what they are talking about. Doesn’t it make you wonder what else is not accurate in their literature and CD-ROM?
Bob
Robert Gregg DDSSpectatorFunny Ron,
Sounds like you are feeling better?
Liu showed 50% less working stokes after FRP Nd:YAG. Day 2 Notebook “Laser Literature”.
Now to go and torment David K.
Bob
AnonymousSpectatorSorry, I must have converted the % into metric for our non US visitors. 😉
Actually, I think its called 1 week vacation and the 30% is what I forget about laser studies!
gurleymannSpectatorHey guys,
I’m cerec user for several years and a new laser user.
I’ve been staing and glazing cerec crowns for about 2 years with great results. If anyone is intersted I can give specifics on the technique. Thanks for the helpful hints on using the laser . I’ve not had the oportunity to uncover an implant yet but am looking forward to it.gurleymann
Robert Gregg DDSSpectatorJust keep it up until she is no longer numb. Tongues are harder to treat, but do respond in my experience.
Don’t forget to lase the area of the nerve location that was likely injusred and therefore inflamed.
Best of success.
Bob
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