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Samuel MossSpectatorRon,
Just to add my Ũ.02; I hear ALL the time how guys NEVER use chemical anesthesia when using the erbium class of lasers. 1st and 2nd molars were my downfall ‘cuz young people felt it. Some guys were able to keep the laser on the tooth with their left hand and drill out amalgam with their right hand. With 6 mag glasses, I never could quite get the coordination to do that. But bicuspids on forward, I could do all sorts of stuff without “the shot”. I use both my erbium and Periolase most every day for an array of stuff.Kelly Blodgett made an interesting note of laser analgesia with the pulsed Nd:YAG. The analgesia is not long lasting, but the concept of the laser targeting the dark red pulpal tissue made more sense than stunning the tooth with erbium laser energy and water. That being said, when using the erbium and the patient feels pain, defocussing for 90 seconds on the target appears to cut the pain enough to use a slow speed handpiece.
Just another bend on the issue.
Mossman
ASISpectatorHi People,
Many good points are brought up to rationalize the present climate in laser dentistry. The climate change is indeed multi-factorial. None of it is really as surprising as it might seem if we think about it.
For experienced dentists, the initial entry into the laser world was like a dawn of a new era. Suddenly, there is this amazing tool that can do things beyond the traditional means. Handpiece and scalpel are no longer the only staples of the profession. Certain difficult procedures are no longer such a drudgery when there is a laser at your finger tips.
The treatments are handled better, the staff members are impressed, the patients are better cared for, and you, the dentist is happier. Along the way, you pick up more patients and generate more income. Bonus points for us!
You become excited and try to share your joy with your colleagues, but most are not interested and politely listen to your conquest with you lasers. Many a times, the responses I get are: “Do you need it?” or “Is there a need for that?” or “How much? And it doesn’t replace your handpiece?” or “I can do that with my scaplel or my handpiece or my electrosurg or whatever…”
These non-laser friendly souls are contend in what they are comfortable in doing. And there is nothing wrong with that. Many of them are providing wonderful treatments for their patients. But think how much better they can be if a dental laser was part of their practice. So, there is still hope for a broader market.
Thank goodness for LDF. A haven to share our experiences and to learn from one another. But even with all good intentions and desires to continue to share, the level of enthusiasm cannot be sustained.
There is life beyond laser dentistry. One almost needs to take another step back to join non-laser dentistry. So for laser dentists, we literally have to take two extra steps back to find that balance.
As for newer dentists, they may not find the same need for the dental lasers as the more established practitioners. Perhaps they have not had as many years in doing certain difficult procedures that the more seasoned among us openly welcome this wonderful tool of light. Perhaps they are also fresher and are not looking for that certain thing to revive their passion for dentistry. Not to mention the cost factor that Glenn has eluded to in that new grads cannot have all the tech toys when there are other financial priorities.
However, if the use of the dental lasers is part of the school curriculum and students are introduced to them in their training, then it won’t be such a hard sell upon graduation. For that to happen, you pretty well have to have all the planets line up in a straight line….. Wishful thinking when it comes to the Ivory Towers. The teachings may not be as contemporay as they can be. Big Bucks and Big Politics.
As laser companies come and go, we just hope that we have done enough homework to have chosen the ones that will provide the best performance clinically and financially.
The excitement may wane but the journey continues because dental lasers are here to stay.
Cheers to all. Enjoy the rest of the summer.
Andrew
(Edited by ASI at 4:36 am on Aug. 18, 2005)
(Edited by ASI at 2:58 pm on Aug. 18, 2005)
Nick LuizziSpectatorAndrew: Some really excellent points. Thanks for shareing. Nick
AnonymousSpectatorI’d bet I’m not the only one who sometimes forgets to put filters in his/her loupes or scope and it has got me thinking about the potential danger. Over the last year I have seen some changes in my vision and was curious if this is just an age thing or if it was related to forgetting the filters. I decided to run a test. Here’s what I did-
All test w/ no filter applied between the fiber,scope, loupes or meter. Note- for the wavelengths beside ndyag ignore the 4w setting on the pictures of the Periolase (these are the settings used for the Periolase, the bottom number is the meter measurement)
Periolase Power Meter used to measure.
1st Periolase direct to meter.Reading-3.8 watts
Periolase thru scope-
Reading- 0 watts
Next Diode
Settings w/ fiber 1.2 w continuous
Diode w/o scope
Reading .6
Diode fiber w/ scope
Reading- 0
Diode wand settings
Diode wand fire
Diode wand reading .6
Erbium
Erbium reading w/o scope 5.4 (some degredation in my 3 y/o fiber)
Erbium scope reading 0
Same tests done with loupes, same results.
Potential test problems- beam splitter on scope may have diverted some of the energy and this doesn’t address the issue of energy reflected around optics or glasses.
WARNING- DON”T FIRE YOUR ERBIUMS AT YOUR LOUPES OR SCOPE W/O LENS COVERS
The good news- IMO there is little chance of inadvertant eye damage from forgetting filters.
The bad news- My eye sight changes must be age
Please don’t take this post as a reason to stop wearing eye protection, it was only done to satisfy my curiosity.
cadavisSpectatorThanks for the pics. I recently purchased an Opus Duo and have been dieing to see some actual pics of procedures.
Thanks guys.
cadavisSpectatorI have no experience yet on the subject of advertising laser procedures, however, one of my patients is a pediatrician and she was very interested when I asked her to start referring her “tongue tied” little patients to me.
If you want referrals, go straight to the source.
cadavisSpectatorI love this site. I think I’ll get a lot from it. I have noticed, however, that the lasers most of you use seem to be anything but the Opus Duo. Because of this, I am having difficulty converting your settings into ones that I can control on my laser. Did I buy the wrong laser???
I sure wish I knew about this website BEFORE I bought my Duo. If anyone out there has the Opus Duo, please give me some specific info on two items:
1. “painting” the tooth to anesthetize
2. Lingual frenectomy procedure (specifics) and settings
Thanks,
Chris
SwpmnSpectatorCool tests. You said tests run with loupes had the same results, right? How did you run the loupe test?
You’re holding the loupes right in front of the PerioLase meter and directing the laser right into the loupe lens?
When we are operating, the laser beam is always directed away from the eye, to me this makes it even safer. Good thing. Where are those darn loupe filters I had anyway, some where around here.What about a carbon dioxide laser wonder if it would be any different?
It’s just age Ron. When I had the photorefractive keratotomy in 1997 my doctor said “You’re still gonna have to get the little grandpa readers when you turn 42”. I still have perfect vision at distance.
Al
BenchwmerSpectatorChris,
Welcome to the Board.
I’ve been an OpusDuo Erbium user for 3 years.
It is a workhorse laser. The pre-sets are pretty much on the mark, when used with a 800 or 1000micron Saphire contact tip.
Erbium= Frenectomy 500mJ 12 Hz w/ water spray
I don’t use a CO2, I use an Nd:YAG for most soft tissue procedures. I have Frenectomy cases on this link for both lasers. Glenn also has lingual frenectomy cases posted (good stuff)_
The pre-treatment anethesia is more of a Waterlase marketing thing. I don’t see the need for anethesia for most restorative procedures, if sensitive, decrease the Hz with your foot pedal, decrease the mJ or start defocused and then move into contact.
Check out old posts for procedures and settings.
Get back with any questions.
Jeff
Glenn van AsSpectatorWonderful tests , I have the laser filters coming and wonder now on their use. CO2 is blocked by glass of any sort I think Allen.
Great tests Ron , very very useful, and I know that all the glass in the scope make a huge difference to blocking the light but I still dont want to take a chance.
Great test
Glenn
Glenn van AsSpectatorAndrew…….wonderful post as usual, eloquent and intellectual.
Spoken by someone who understands both sides of the laser fence.
Have a great summer, (I am in San Diego right now) ready to go for a run on another perfect day in paradise!!
Cya
Glenn
Robert Gregg DDSSpectatorRon,
Great test!
Ummmmm………….
I started forgetting to put the right laser glasses on about 14 years ago.
I’d put the Nd:YAG glasses on, then take them off to put on the Argon surgical glasses, then the Holmium, then ………
When I got confused and used the Argon glasses with the Nd:YAG laser, and I didn’t go blind I stopped using glasses. Really haven’t for over a decade and that inclde using a microscope all that time.
No changes in my vision. I’m 48 and no presbyopia. I still need glasses for distance as I have fo 25 years.
Having said that, we train our doctors to wear safety glasses. “Do as we say, NOT as we do.” Also, when the new filter for the Global scope comes out, I’m gonna buy it as it sets the right example and won’t interfere with the vision.
But I think it was always a question whether the scope was increasing the focusing of the diverging Nd:YAG or other beams when I was using it. We have hand-held power meters that we can test with, but I doubt it would show much difference–other than they are more sensitive to powers below 1 watt.
Del feels the scattered near-nfrared light he gets from biostimulating his sinuses has been the reason he no longer wears corrective lens?
Allen, I’m thinking about getting refractive surgery. Any focusing problems up close to near as in he practice of dentistry?
Nice post Ron.
Bob
(Edited by Robert Gregg DDS at 10:19 am on Aug. 22, 2005)
SwpmnSpectatorBob:
Didn’t have any problems focusing up close when I first had the procedure eight years ago. Just as the doctor predicted, the presbyopia arrived once I got into my forties. Bear in mind I did not have LASIK but the flapless technique where they ablate the exterior of the cornea.
Al
cadavisSpectatorThanks Jeff, I appreciate the info. I’ve still gotta lot to learn, I guess.
AnonymousSpectatorChris, a couple of ‘classic’ posts that will help you down the learning curve!
<a href="http://www.rwebstudio.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard//topic.cgi?forum=25&topic=75
http://www.rwebstudio.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard//topic.cgi?forum=25&topic=23
and” target=”_blank”>http://www.rwebstudio.com/cgi-bin….
http then read where things have evolved to re: ‘laser anesthesia’
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