Forums › Laser Treatment Tips and Techniques › Hard Tissue Procedures › used laser bargins?
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RWATSONSpectatorI don’t have any laser experience yet, but like what I’m hearing about the waterlase particularly. I have been contacted by a broker who as a used Millinium I and a used Millinimum II for sale – presumably from dentists that found they were not that useful. Are these likely to be lemons?? Does anyone have experience with these older laser models – I am told the main difference is the size of machine, not it’s capabilities… What are your thoughts?? Thanks, Bob Watson
SwpmnSpectatorBob:
I have followed the development of the Waterlase for 4 years. The early unit was very large and would not fit well in my operatories. Have no input into whether the early unit works as well as the second generation unit.
The new Waterlase is compact and that is what sold me on the unit. Since I purchased my unit, there has been a major advancement in the trunk fiber delivery system. It’s much more flexible and user-friendly.
If the Waterlase is working correctly and you are using the most advanced laser tips, you should be amazed at how quickly the laser will prepare teeth for composites. However, in my practice, we do not market the laser as dental treatment without anesthetic. Some patients can tolerate the procedure without anesthestic – we’ve found it to be about one out of every two.
Be prepared to spend several thousand dollars per year for proper maintenance of the laser.
Al
Glenn van AsSpectatorVery well put…….it has been my experience in talking to users of the Biolase Millenium 1 that it was in many instances more dependable than the earliest versions of version 2. Biolase has worked hard to rectify problems they may have had with the fiber early on.
The first version is HUGE……..
My suggestion is look at the version 2 but make sure that you get an awesome deal and a good warranty.
You will need it, as you can expect some things to go wrong. It may be something small or the fiber, and there is a big difference in cost and inconvenience.
Cya
Glenn
RWATSONSpectatorThanks, AL and Glen – I’m learning some things allready.
Being a newby is HARD!
What are the ‘expected’ expenses that add up to several thousand $$ a year – is it the ‘fiber’ or some sort of alignment/adjustment, or what?
And, if I am going to have to put that amount of $$ into keeping it running well, perhaps there is no real saveings to buying an older model for say 10 or 15 k less. I might well have to put that much into it to keep it up to snuff, right? Or is my reasoning incorrect??As for space, I think I could handle a cart as large as a ‘big’ desktop, but what I am worried about is that ‘fiber’ geting banged around in a busy office.
Way too mucy to think aobut..
PS: i got an estimate from a 3rd party for a MilliniumI at around 30k w a one yr warrenty – does that sound fair?
PPS: any books or journals you guys would recommend as reading to get background learning?
SwpmnSpectatorBob:
Realize that everyone using the Erbium for hard tissue treatment is a “newbie”. We are not the “pioneers” of laser dentistry but we ARE the very small percentage of dentists using Erbium lasers for cavity preps in a day to day, “wet gloved” clinical situation.
Many things can go wrong with the laser. With my laser, have experienced problems with the laser rod, the pump chamber and the flashlamp. When the thing breaks, it’s very expensive to repair. I have blown two trunk fibers – the “hose” which delivers the laser energy to the handpiece.
Biolase offers what they call a “bumper to bumper” yearly maintenance contract. The present cost is 񘴘. Be sure to read your contract carefully and ask a lot of questions, e.g., Is the trunk fiber covered? If you do not purchase the maintenance contract, I can tell you the cost to repair your laser may be a lot more than 񘴘.
Bob, in my opinion, 30K for an old Millenium I with a one year warranty is quite steep.
Al
AnonymousGuestQUOTEQuote: from RWATSON on 6:57 pm on Oct. 30, 2002PPS: any books or journals you guys would recommend as reading to get background learning?
Dental Clinics of North America Oct. 2000 44:4 Laser and Light Amplification in Dentistry (check ebay-got mine for ů.00)
Dental Applications of Advanced Lasers -Manni
Glenn van AsSpectatorHI there ………join the Academy of Laser Dentistry and take a standard proficiency 2 day course.
In my opinion (keep in mind I own a continuum laser) that 30K for a old millenium 1 is ridiculously high.
I know that you can get a brand new erbium yag from Continuum lasers which is very very similar to the Biolase for 36K. You can get a hard tissue erbium yag and a seperate soft tissue diode laser from them in a package deal for 44K.
I think the Millenium 2 new is 45 K .
Join the ALD and get back orders of their Wavelengths magazine which has all kinds of cool cases.
Be aware of what the laser can and cant do.
Its not a panacea for all and remember that cutting with light is always slower whether in soft tissue or hard tissue than cutting with the handpiece.
I will post a case tonight where I feel the laser helped me sterilize a very deep prep.
It was an adjunct not a replacement.
Its a phenomenal and I mean phenomenal marketing tool
Check out some of the cases I have posted and see what is possible.
Glenn
Robert Gregg DDSSpectatorBob,
Buy the newest laser technology, not last decade’s White Elephant.
Biolase erbiums are fussy enough as they are–without buying their old technolgy. The engineers have solved many problems in the Waterlase II design that could not be properly addressed in the Waterlase I. Some things will always be problematic in the first design.
Bob
PS–There is a reason I don’t refer to the Biolase Waterlase as the Millennium ANYTHING……;)
http://www.millenniumdental.com
(Edited by Robert Gregg DDS at 2:17 am on Oct. 31, 2002)
2thlaserSpectatorActually, it’s not known as the millinium anything anyway. It IS called the Waterlase. That is it’s rightful name. So, Bob, your safe;).
SwpmnSpectatorWhen I crank mine up it says “Millenium II” right on the digital display!!!!!
Ha ha ha,
Al
Robert Gregg DDSSpectatorHa! is right! The irony and humor never escaped us–even in 1994…..
There are reasons for the names that were, and reasons for the names that are today….and I’m not posting them in a pubic forum! Let’s just say that things are just fine by those of us at Millennium….:cool:
Oh, and don’t forget to visit the Millennium booth AND the hospitality suite at the Greater New York meeting!:biggrin:
Bob
RWATSONSpectatorThanks, fellows – I obviously have more homework to do! Thanks again for shareing your info and oppinions.
Bob W. -
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